background: K-10th grade Catholic school. Face-whacking nuns and all. Raised in a Protestant church, went to Mass about twice a month, tops. 15 years of book learning on world religions, 2 years experience of practicing Buddhism.
Never did I think that the bible was more than a history book. an embellished one. I always planned on having premarital sex. Not for conquest, or acceptance. Still can count my partners on my hands, for that matter.
Had a discussion with a friend about how Texan chicks are hell-bent on getting married, and then getting divorced at a 50% rate. Touched briefly on the subject of abstinence prior to marriage.
I wish that sexual views could be openly discussed in American society. For sexuality to be better integrated with our lives, the way Europeans have integrated alcohol better into their lives when compared to Americans.
We agreed that any successful marriage is a true meeting of the hearts, the minds, the genitals, etc. People have to connect on many levels: you have to care about people and express it in similar ways. you have to be intellectually stimulated by the other. you have to have compatible genitalia (no hotdogs in hallways, no cacti in thimbles).
Some factors PREVENT some of these 'meetings' from taking place. One is a lack of self-esteem: doing or saying whatever you think the other person wants to hear, in order to artificially deepen the relationship. Flowers when you don't really care. Pretending to like their friends. Lying about their taste in clothes. You get the point.
I postulated that here, in this Conservative Bible Belt, that the lack of sexual openness could cripple a relationship in the beginning stages. Christians are just not equipped with the values that let them handle premarital sex. 'It's wrong. I should be a virgin before marriage.' Well, then you know nothing about sex. What if you're not compatible with your partner??!! THEN WHAT.
Christianity is outdated. Discuss.
..."No Parking On The Motherfuckin' Dance Floor, Move To The Groove or Prepare To Be Removed"
Your comments are sweeping, overbroad and far too generalized to merit a substantive reply.Originally Posted by LightWeaver
Secondly, I think you're suggesting that a) Chritians think and behave monolithically, 2) that monolithic thinking is always bad - it isn't, 3) that Christians monolithically have poor views related to sex , and, 4) that this monolithic bad thinking about sex makes an entire religion "outdated"
I think you didn't do a lot of thinking.
Read: ObtuseObserver dammit
Abstinence or Not?
I think in a shorter version lightweaver is saying the teaching of abstinence is bad. In which I agree with him/her.
Last edited by housefish; 10-13-05 at 12:39 PM.
Not necessarily, it works for some people. I think the idea behind abstinence was to help younger people understand that there's more to sex than just the bumping and the grinding. It was also a way to A) keep men's dick in their pants B) Try to bring forward the notion of love instead of just fucking. Now given some of our more basic animal instincs, sometimes this way of thinking failed miserably.
"The goal of evolution is Higher Intelligence—the sequential development of the nervous system—increasingly capable of receiving, integrating, and transmitting a wider spectrum of signals of greater intensity, complexity, and speed." T.L.
not really. my mind was drifting and attached to a conversation I had over some pancakes that didn't sit satisfactorily.
i'm not trying to convince people of anything, just thinking out loud.
the different aspects to Christianity i'm seeing after leaving Pennsylvania are unsettling me. Not sure if it's Yankee differences, Baptist vs Catholic vs Protestant difference, or something I don't understand yet.
But my generalization stems from my reaction to "DFW Metroplex Texan Christians" who are willing to vent. Not being a uniform group (patchwork of different lifestyles, classes, sects), then yes, I am generalizing until I gather enough information to differentiate.
The degree of conservatism (to the point of fundamentalism) is much more pronounced in the South than in the North. This was my keystone, and I wanted to explore the effects of this gap on other aspects of life. Relationships just happened to be the target.
Now I realize that I'm giving an opinion, from my perspective, the degree... etc etc. It may be a fact, but I suppose I'll have to sharpen my magnifying glass to see for sure.
..."No Parking On The Motherfuckin' Dance Floor, Move To The Groove or Prepare To Be Removed"
Welcome to the bible belt.
"The goal of evolution is Higher Intelligence—the sequential development of the nervous system—increasingly capable of receiving, integrating, and transmitting a wider spectrum of signals of greater intensity, complexity, and speed." T.L.
I think people should be judicious about whom they have sex with and when (and of course where). I think rampant promiscuity in younger years is often regretted in later years.
I think abstinence is a pretty high bar to acheive - I think it admirable that some try.
I think it is the churches role to uphold an ideal (to set the bar high) not to be accomodating to prevailing social mores.
Me: Walks into Car Dealership.
Sales Man: Can I help you with something.
Me: Yes, you can - I would like to buy this car.
Sales Man: Well, would you like to go for a test drive?
Me: No, I've been coming in here everyday for the last year a talking to her and rubbing her hood. I know she drives great!!!
Sales Man: So you don't want to drive it, before you buy it?
Me: No, I know it will work out.
My point is - you are going to have a car for what 3-7 years. You are going to have spose for life. I would definitely take them for test drive.
I agree with that from my own Yankee Protestant experience as well.
A fair generalization is that the tighter the grip and control on the surface the looser underneath. Behavior is like a water balloon - squeeze one end and the water will move elsewhere. In Victorian England they covered piano legs - and - had some of the most outragous underground establishments ready to cater to the most corrupt or simply bizarre interests that were forbidden - nominally. blah blah blah
Read: ObtuseObserver dammit
I always love to quote the Simpsons..... "1 in 25 arranged marriages end in divorce...."
If one's partner's sexual competancy is a deal breaker for marriage then the marriage probably suffered from a great many other defects as well.
Read: ObtuseObserver dammit
I agree with the Church setting the bar high. Just don't try hold everyone else you come in contact with to the same. That is all.
christianty teaches that sex is a gift to be treasured between two people who marry, for pleasure and for the purpose of procreation
that concept is completely dead, sadly, and slutbags are more than abundant, so i don't know where you get your "all texan women are hellbent on getting married" schtick
Who was doing that? The question as I understood it, was, what's the churches position on sex - is it realistic and is it a good thing. High bar, probably not, and probably would be my take on it
Read: ObtuseObserver dammit
Who was doing that? The question as I understood it, was, what's the churches position on sex - is it realistic and is it a good thing. High bar, probably not, and probably would be my take on it
You know what I mean....
Don't act like you don't.
Agreed, however there's something to be said about having had some experience with sex and know the difference between fucking and truly making love with someone. Sex is not all that builds a relationship, but it is a part of it.
"The goal of evolution is Higher Intelligence—the sequential development of the nervous system—increasingly capable of receiving, integrating, and transmitting a wider spectrum of signals of greater intensity, complexity, and speed." T.L.
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