My beef with Christianity

**The Nudist Buddhist** · 01-05-06, 03:01 AM

I only browse A&P, as I always get my ass handed to me here. But here goes:

A person raised to worship the Sun lives a kind and generous life, doing nothing but giving all he can to be good to Man, animals and plants alike. Said person dies. Christians believe he goes to hell.

Why does he do?

**GLopez** · 01-05-06, 09:03 AM

I believe in the Lord and I believe that Jesus Christ is the son of God.

However, if there were (are) a man /men who worshiped the sun live a kind and generous life, doing nothing but giving all he can to be good to man, animals and plants alike... I don't believe that he would go to hell.

I was raised catholic. Went to catholic school.. received my first communion (forgot to drink the wine).. haven't made my confirmation, yet, but we'll see... I was taught about the Lord and that Jesus Christ is the son of the Lord.. and through all of my years of beleiving, I've come to the conclusion that the Lord judges you by how much you love yourself and the life he's given you, how well you treat and respect your fellow man.. and living your life for Lord, by Lord.

With everything, there's a right way and wrong way. What I find wrong with some christians and those who preach "the good word".. they go about preaching the word of the Lord in the wrong way. They talk down to people, point out their wrong-doings and believe that they're "better" than others because if their new found glory. Good for them and I'm glad they found the Lord.. but that does not give them a right to come across as they tend to do. No one likes to be degraded, so, why would anyone want to hear how bad of a person they are?

Personally, no man is going to tell me that I'm going to hell or that I'm not living my life right. One thing that I don't agree with the catholic religion is confessing my sins to another man. I'm my own man and the Lord gave me the power and the strength to be my own man. So only through the Lord will I confide in... not to a preacher telling me that I'm wrong for doing this or that and not to a father in a confession booth... and I damn sure wouldn't confide in some false prophet shaking the money jar.

The Lord is the sun, he is the plants, he is the spirit in the sky, he is the father almighty.. and I make sure to thank him for my blessings everyday. So to answer your question T, "Mohommad is Jesus is Buddha is Love is the way I see it."

**PETA** · 01-05-06, 09:13 AM

Originally Posted by The Nudist Buddhist

I only browse A&P, as I always get my ass handed to me here. But here goes:

A person raised to worship the Sun lives a kind and generous life, doing nothing but giving all he can to be good to Man, animals and plants alike. Said person dies. Christians believe he goes to hell.

Why does he do?

Not all Christians believe he goes to hell.....

If one believes in Christ then one may go to Heaven... this does not mean, necessarily, that if one does not, then one goes to hell.

God, and I'm sure you've heard this before, can choose to reveal himself how he will, when he will, in whatever means he will... I think those who'd reject other religions as proof of the believers ticket to hell are making a big leap. This is not to suggest that all religions are equally valid either... however, it does say that one should mind one's own house and not use it as a basis to challenge or criticise another's.

**Rohan** · 01-05-06, 09:58 AM

Originally Posted by GLopez

One thing that I don't agree with the catholic religion is confessing my sins to another man. I'm my own man and the Lord gave me the power and the strength to be my own man. So only through the Lord will I confide in... not to a preacher telling me that I'm wrong for doing this or that and not to a father in a confession booth... and I damn sure wouldn't confide in some false prophet shaking the money jar.

Welcome to Protestantism, my friend. Maybe this is why Texas preachers make the hackles on the back of my neck stand up.

Originally Posted by GLopez

The Lord is the sun, he is the plants, he is the spirit in the sky, he is the father almighty.. and I make sure to thank him for my blessings everyday. So to answer your question T, "Mohommad is Jesus is Buddha is Love is the way I see it."

When there is a conflict in a person's life between their belief system and their actions, two things can happen: you can change your actions, or you can change your belief system.

Like you, I've done the latter. And lots of Generation Xers and after have evolved their own religions, which tend towards polytheism. "I am a Lutheran, but I don't believe I have to accept Christ solely as my Savior." "I am a Catholic, but I go to other churches and listen to the preacher." "I am Catholic, but I eat meat on Fridays and break the commandment about using God's name in vain almost daily".

Are we devaluing religion by forcing it to conform to us, instead of bending to it? Or are we evolving it so it has more relevance in our multicultural world?

**PETA** · 01-05-06, 10:20 AM

Originally Posted by LightWeaver

And lots of Generation Xers and after have evolved their own religions, which tend towards polytheism. "I am a Lutheran, but I don't believe I have to accept Christ solely as my Savior."

Now that's an oxymoron.

Originally Posted by LightWeaver

Are we devaluing religion by forcing it to conform to us, instead of bending to it?

Sort of... If one picks and chooses which elements to accept, which to reject and which to add... you've got a new religion... not the faith one started from and in that sense the original or starting faith is devalued ... but, more power to that person if its useful and comforting etc..

Originally Posted by LightWeaver

Or are we evolving it so it has more relevance in our multicultural world?

One is to conform conduct and belief to the faith not the other way around. Like I said above - if one wants to do it the other way around... so be it - but it would be specious to refer to it as Catholic or Lutheran if that person makes up his own rules. Quite rather that person would have the Church of Robert or whatever....

-m- · 01-05-06, 10:39 AM

My only problem with Christianity is the people who believe that their school of thought is only one with validity and feel the need to impose their lifestyle on everyone else.

**High Maintenance (4peace)** · 01-05-06, 10:39 AM

I'm an atheist and I actually have more respect for people who live 100% by their religion's mantra than those who fake the funk and bend it to fit their own will.

For example, my wifes parents are Colombian and 100% hardcore Catholics. While their fanticism drives me insane most of the time, and they refuse to listen to anything I say on the subject, at least I can respect the fact they are completely committed to their religion and live their lives according to it's teachings.

Either you're Catholic or your not...baptist or not....methodist or not, etc... IMO, you either accept your religion wholly or not at all. You can't just accept the parts that you like and alter or disregard the parts you don't. If you are going to make up your own rules, then start your own religion. Most religions have been around for thousands of years, so how arrogant and selfish is it that people try to reshape it for themselves so it fits their lifestyle? That's called playing god, not worshipping him.

**GLopez** · 01-05-06, 10:40 AM

Originally Posted by LightWeaver

Are we devaluing religion by forcing it to conform to us, instead of bending to it? Or are we evolving it so it has more relevance in our multicultural world?

I don't think that I'm forcing religion to conform to myself. I believe in everything about God and Jesus that the catholic religion has taught me. I just don't believe in confessing my sins to another man.

That's probably the only thing that I disagree with in the religion, itself. Everything else, is the core of my beliefs and the backbone of the person I am today. Not that I'm a die hard go-to-church-every-sunday catholic boy.. but, I don't ever say the Lord's name in vain, either.

**fuck logic** · 01-05-06, 10:46 AM

Originally Posted by The Nudist Buddhist

I only browse A&P, as I always get my ass handed to me here. But here goes:

A person raised to worship the Sun lives a kind and generous life, doing nothing but giving all he can to be good to Man, animals and plants alike. Said person dies. Christians believe he goes to hell.

Why does he do?

He doesn't necessarily; not all Christians believe that. Many believe that if he is offered God and outright rejects him, he goes to hell, but if he has never experienced god, he's in the clear. He's innocent; it's not his fault.

That makes sense from an atheist standpoint as well. I personally believe that "heaven" or "hell" is the last thing you feel when you die. If you are secure in your relationship with god and confident that you're on your way to meet him, then that warmth and comfort will be the last thing you ever feel. It will seem to last forever because nothing else can ever replace it. If you've seen god and religion and rejected them, then as you’re faced with death you start having doubts, then that doubt and fear will be your hell. If you're completely ignorant of such things, or if you subscribe to ideas other than monotheistic heaven or hell, then you have nothing (or something completely different) to look forward to or be afraid of.

**Rufus Punk** · 01-05-06, 10:50 AM

Originally Posted by TechSun 4Peace

You can't just accept the parts that you like and alter or disregard the parts you don't. If you are going to make up your own rules, then start your own religion.

Then I guess I started Brianetics.

I have not been to confession since 1991 (being of the Catholic faith) and still have yet to commit any venial or mortal sins, yet I still follow the rest of the churches teachings. I altered it because why should I have to go through another man just as fallible as I to conference call in to God?

I go to masses of others' religions, yet don't partake in their sacrament (in deference to my own).

If by lifting up my voice and singing and praising Him in my dance and daily actions don't offer up the importance of Him in my life, then I don't know what would.

As much as I believe, I know better than to "pimp Jesus". I offer up information to those who will hear, but to those who chose not to, I leave be.

Only you can prevent hellfires.

- Smokey the Bear

**Hey Bubu** · 01-05-06, 10:52 AM

Originally Posted by TechSun 4Peace

Either you're Catholic or your not...baptist or not....methodist or not, etc... IMO, you either accept your religion wholly or not at all. You can't just accept the parts that you like and alter or disregard the parts you don't.

So what's your opinion on the different versions of Christianity? They all broke off at one point, are they not valid then? Should we all go back to the core doctrine? Is Roman Catholisism the core doctrine? Should we go back to Gnostisism?

Why is it that there's more than one religion? Is the entire message of God split into each one of them? Is one religion better than the other? Could it be that as we have "evolved" and broke down the barriers of communication and information sharing, we are now able to see the message/word in its entierity?

**willy_jack** · 01-05-06, 10:56 AM

I am extreme, militant liberal, and I believe Jesus existed. I will even go as far as to say that I believe that he is everything said.

I just think church has perverted the true meaning behind his words to fit their agenda.

And I think that if he ever truly ever comes back, then we truly will see that the meek who inherited the earth did not drop bombs on mid-east people, hate gay people, and protected big corporations.

**Rohan** · 01-05-06, 11:07 AM

Originally Posted by GLopez

I don't think that I'm forcing religion to conform to myself. I believe in everything about God and Jesus that the catholic religion has taught me. I just don't believe in confessing my sins to another man.

Even though Catholicism believes that their holy men should be segregated from society, study the theology, abstain from women and drink, and cloister together...all to bring them better understanding and closeness to God...

...you don't want to talk to the 'experts'. Why's that?

**PETA** · 01-05-06, 11:09 AM

Originally Posted by -m-

My only problem with Christianity is the people who believe that their school of thought is only one with validity and feel the need to impose their lifestyle on everyone else.

I appreciate your standing back from using the word "force" but impose is pretty close....curious who knocked on your door and told you to change your behavior to conform with their directives or they'd inflcit a penalty?

If no one did - then no one has imposed anything on you. I think what you may have meant is that you dislike the notion that some Christians behave with an air of smug satisfaction and look down their noses at those they feel do not "measure up." And you'd be right for thinking those people are assholes.... but that's a far cry from anything being imposed on you don't you think?

Originally Posted by webster

Main Entry: im·pose

Pronunciation: im-'pOz
Function: verb
Inflected Form(s): im·posed; im·pos·ing
Etymology: Middle French imposer, from Latin imponere, literally, to put upon (perfect indicative imposui), from in- + ponere to put -- more at POSITION
transitive senses
1 a : to establish or apply by authority <impose a tax> <impose new restrictions> <impose penalties> b : to establish or bring about as if by force <those limits imposed by our own inadequacies -- C. H. Plimpton>

**PETA** · 01-05-06, 11:16 AM

Originally Posted by GLopez

I don't think that I'm forcing religion to conform to myself. I believe in everything about God and Jesus that the catholic religion has taught me. I just don't believe in confessing my sins to another man.

Neither did Martin Luther. That, amongst other things, got him excommunicated.

Originally Posted by LightWeaver

Even though Catholicism believes that their holy men should be segregated from society, study the theology, abstain from women and drink, and cloister together...all to bring them better understanding and closeness to God...

...you don't want to talk to the 'experts'. Why's that?

that's not what he said... he said he believed his confession was between him and God without need for the intercession of a priest....

I don't think his comments precluded in any way seeking out the counsel of those same wise experts...

sorry GLo - didn't mean to speak for you - just thought it a very interesting question and couldn't help myself