Threat to America, or American interests?

[MysteryMeat]

Just putting it out there for some warm debate: anyone out there believe that if we weren't cavorting about the globe snatching up other people's resources, imposing our ideas on them, and protecting "free trade" <sarcasm>, that direct threats to this country wouldn't be anywhere near what they are today, nor would people around the planet hate us as much?

If you think about it, we haven't had a serious invasive attack on this country since the genocide of the Indians or the quelling of the Mexican armies. I believe Sept. 11th was a wake-up call to the people to do something about their government and a statement, not a threat to America as a whole - just it's interests overseas.

Thoughts?


*edit* And yes, I've heard the arguments about Muslim extremists hating the 'Godless' Americans; my point is that I don't believe that there would be an invasion on this country or a direct threat to its people if we stayed the hell out of their respective lands.

[Krash]

It certainly is debateable, I'd tend to agree, in principle, with the main part of that - ie that if we, the west, didn't stick our grubby greedy mits in, in the pursuance of our own greed, we'd not garner nearly as much hatred as we do today.

In saying that, envy is a terrible human trait, so nor do I think that, if we didn't interfere, it would all go away, either.

[johnny861]

If we didn't have a 50 year cold war with the Soviets, a lot of these diplomatic fires would not have existed...


Bullets may not have been fired, but it was a war, be it diplomatic. And like any war, you have to begin rebuilding in the aftermath, only the rebuilding that we need to do is more diplomatic.

Imagine if world war ii carried on for 50 years, what kind of mess the world would be in today? Now think about the diplomatic messes that both the united states and the soviet union made over the last 50 years during their chess game.

We may have had a checkmate on lithuania, but we've still gotta clean the pieces off the board...



And it really wouldn't matter much if we did become an isolationist state, remember the Zimmerman note?

Talk about a diplomatic embarrasment, but then if we didn't nose around in other people's business and discover that note and it went unnoticed what might have happened?

[MysteryMeat]

Originally posted by johnny861
If we didn't have a 50 year cold war with the Soviets, a lot of these diplomatic fires would not have existed...


Bullets may not have been fired, but it was a war, be it diplomatic. And like any war, you have to begin rebuilding in the aftermath, only the rebuilding that we need to do is more diplomatic.

Imagine if world war ii carried on for 50 years, what kind of mess the world would be in today? Now think about the diplomatic messes that both the united states and the soviet union made over the last 50 years during their chess game.

We may have had a checkmate on lithuania, but we've still gotta clean the pieces off the board...



And it really wouldn't matter much if we did become an isolationist state, remember the Zimmerman note?

Talk about a diplomatic embarrasment, but then if we didn't nose around in other people's business and discover that note and it went unnoticed what might have happened?

Interesting that you should bring up the Zimmerman note in this conversation... let's take a look at it:

Berlin, January 19, 1917

On the first of February we intend to begin submarine warfare unrestricted. In spite of this, it is our intention to endeavor to keep neutral the United States of America.

If this attempt is not successful, we propose an alliance on the following basis with Mexico: That we shall make war together and together make peace. We shall give general financial support, and it is understood that Mexico is to reconquer the lost territory in New Mexico, Texas, and Arizona. The details are left to you for settlement....

You are instructed to inform the President of Mexico of the above in the greatest confidence as soon as it is certain that there will be an outbreak of war with the United States and suggest that the President of Mexico, on his own initiative, should communicate with Japan suggesting adherence at once to this plan; at the same time, offer to mediate between Germany and Japan.

Please call to the attention of the President of Mexico that the employment of ruthless submarine warfare now promises to compel England to make peace in a few months.

Zimmerman
(Secretary of State)

The Zimmerman note, if anything, was not a direct threat or declaration of war, but a warning for the United States not to interfere with Europe's war.

[USAcommitteeX]

And yes, I've heard the arguments about Muslim extremists hating the 'Godless' Americans; my point is that I don't believe that there would be an invasion on this country or a direct threat to its people if we stayed the hell out of their respective lands.

For several centuries after its advent, Islam was an alibi for Arab imperialism. And it was an imperialism of a type which the world had not known so far. The Arabs not only imposed their ruthless rule and totalitarian creed on the countries they conquered; they also populated these countries with a prolific progeny whch they procreated on native women.

[MysteryMeat]

Originally posted by USAcommitteeX
For several centuries after its advent, Islam was an alibi for Arab imperialism. And it was an imperialism of a type which the world had not known so far. The Arabs not only imposed their ruthless rule and totalitarian creed on the countries they conquered; they also populated these countries with a prolific progeny whch they procreated on native women.

I don't understand how that applies here. We're geographically separated from the other 1/2 of the world, and safe from any sort of serious invasion. It's taken 200 years for the Arab extremists to bother us over here, and again, it wasn't an invasion, it was a symbolic gesture to awaken awareness in the people here, because we're over there bothering them on their soil.

[USAcommitteeX]

We are a target by the terrorist for what this country stands for, we are a target for our unconditonal support of Israel, its about protecting ones interest, all these terrorist activities are linked to the Arab Israeli confict, the arab muslims want a Palestinian state in all of Israel, from the river Jordan to the sea, they want Jerusalem as the capital of Palestine but that is impossible because its been the capital of the jewish people for 3,000 years, we do support a Palestinian state but not one built on terror, and we wont allow the the Arab League to push Israel around. Arab countries do not want democracy to work for the Palestinians and Iraqis that would be bad news for the Saudis Syrians Iranians, Egyptians and so on...atheist wont understand the situation.

[MysteryMeat]

Originally posted by USAcommitteeX
We are a target by the terrorist for what this country stands for, we are a target for our unconditonal support of Israel, its about protecting ones interest, all these terrorist activities are linked to the Arab Israeli confict, the arab muslims want a Palestinian state in all of Israel, from the river Jordan to the sea, they want Jerusalem as the capital of Palestine but that is impossible because its been the capital of the jewish people for 3,000 years, we do support a Palestinian state but not one built on terror, and we wont allow the the Arab League to push Israel around. Arab countries do not want democracy to work for the Palestinians and Iraqis that would be bad news for the Saudis Syrians Iranians, Egyptians and so on...atheist wont understand the situation.

So we agree, then. This is about our affairs in other countries and protecting our interests.

I have some other points, but they're worth starting another thread now that my mental ball is rolling .

[Krash]

Originally posted by USAcommitteeX
[B]...unconditonal..../B]

Anything "unconditional", is a timebomb.

That's like a parent giving their serial killer child an alibi.

[alexican]

Americans are hated for numerous reasons, not just for being nosy and bossy. We give aid to countries and then stab them in the back when its to our benefit; we're the richest country in the world and pompously display it; we're arrogant in our nationality; the freedoms and rights we take for granted are the same ones that people die for daily in other parts of the world

[Adam D]

Originally posted by USAcommitteeX
For several centuries after its advent, Islam was an alibi for Arab imperialism.

Essentially every religion born west of India on the Eurasian continent has been used as an alibi for imperialism.