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psyon · 05-03-04, 12:01 PM

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/4855930/

Its says they

"— have received the most severe level of administrative reprimand in the U.S. military"

and "could spell the end of their careers"

but "they would not face further action or court martial".

Could someone with military knowledge explain to us what "most severe level of administrative reprimand in the U.S. military" consists of.

And pardon my lack of military knowledge, but why the fuck aren't they being court martialed, and what would that mean?

Please explain to me how this is more than just a slap on the wrist - which is what nearly always happens when shit like this goes down.

05-03-04, 01:25 PM

As far as I know the administrative reprimand could be a number of things from dishonorable discharge to yanking their commission, knocking them down several notches in rank, extra duty, letters of reprimand, etc....

They make no mention of putting these people in jail. That's where they belong. We all know that if this were civilians right here on our shores engaging in the same behaviors they would face jail time at the very least. (Wasn't one of the prisoners found dead?) We all know that these are the very same types of actions that we supposedly went over there to prevent. C'mon, this country went to war over shit like this and they just get the end of their 'career'. I don't know what planet the assholes who will let them get off this easy live on. Regardless of quotes we get about how it was only a select few, this doesn't represent the entire United States, politicians being 'disghusted' by the behavior, the whole world is looking at us now more than ever. You and I as american citizens may understand that there is a great difference between sickos doing the torturing and the average american but most of the rest of the world right now doesn't care. We need to hammer them and lock them up tight. Hell, why dont' we send them to gitmo? (ha ha, just a thought)

Hey Bubu · 05-03-04, 02:01 PM

Shit is gonna hit the fan worldwide if these guys and gals don't get sent to jail.

[aNNa] · 05-03-04, 02:19 PM

32 boots’ shown in photo

“Absolutely. One photograph showed — it didn’t show faces completely, but the photograph showed 32 boots,” Karpinski told ABC. “I’m saying other people than the military police.”

It was not clear if that would include the seven soldiers reported reprimanded Monday.

Karpinski’s lawyer, Neal Puckett, said on the same program that while his client received “an admonishment” from her commander, she has not been suspended or relieved of her command.

apparently more are to blame (which i already suspected)
and the so-called punishment does not seem to include
suspension or being relieved of one's command.

“We’re disposable,” she said of the military’s attitude toward reservists. “Why would they want the active-duty people to take the blame? They want to put this on the M.P.’s and hope that this thing goes away. Well, it’s not going to go away.”

Karpinski told ABC the cell blocks at Abu Ghraib where some of the alleged abuse occurred were “under the military intelligence control.”

cover ups, cover ups, and more cover ups.
(which i already suspected as well given what i've
read in the newspaper and just common sense)

i expect the masterful illlision of punishment here.
where illusion is the operative word.

Krash · 05-03-04, 04:12 PM

Administrative reprimand?

That is disgusting. I was expecting a full court martial and time in a military jail. Any less will lead the rest of the world to believe, rightly, that it really is one rule for one and another for another.

One of the reasons we invaded Iraq was (supposedly) to get rid of an evil dictator.

We have replaced him with people who are nearly as bad.

Way to go.

Dionysos · 05-03-04, 05:01 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Krash
Administrative reprimand?

That is disgusting. I was expecting a full court martial and time in a military jail. Any less will lead the rest of the world to believe, rightly, that it really is one rule for one and another for another.

If that is the case, I'm in full agreement. They need to nail the guilty soldiers to the wall on this one.

Dionysos · 05-03-04, 05:18 PM

CNN is posting that 6 MPs are facing criminal charges(court martials), 6 are facing administrative discipline, and iirc there are 4 others that have yet to be determined.

MysteryMeat · 05-03-04, 05:58 PM

Good thing that George Bush made it so that the US military does not face tribunals for war crimes. *whew*

by the way, check out this older little nugget of joy, brought to you by our boys in tan & green, the US Military :

http://www.iol.co.za/index.php?click...6B265&set_id=1

Element4040 · 05-04-04, 12:55 PM

Nothing short of Jail time will satisfy the majority of the American people. Bush is going to drop the ball once again. He has the opportunity to show the Iraqi people that this will not be tolerated. And they choose to try to cover it up. Brilliant move, Daddy would be proud.

Dionysos · 05-04-04, 12:58 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Element4040
Nothing short of Jail time will satisfy the majority of the American people. Bush is going to drop the ball once again. He has the opportunity to show the Iraqi people that this will not be tolerated. And they choose to try to cover it up. Brilliant move, Daddy would be proud.

6 of the MPs involved are facing court martial, which means jail time.

Element4040 · 05-04-04, 01:03 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Dionysos
6 of the MPs involved are facing court martial, which means jail time.

I don't know much at all about Military discipline. Court Martial always includes Jail time? If so, good, they deserve it!

I keep hearing on the news about the soldiers involved complaining they didn't have the Geneva convention papers. Do you really need the Geneva convention papers to tell you what you did was wrong? Common Sense?

Dionysos · 05-04-04, 01:22 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Element4040
I don't know much at all about Military discipline. Court Martial always includes Jail time? If so, good, they deserve it!

I keep hearing on the news about the soldiers involved complaining they didn't have the Geneva convention papers. Do you really need the Geneva convention papers to tell you what you did was wrong? Common Sense?

If it is a general court martial it's essentially the same as a civilian felony trial, the main difference being the jury is entirely military personnel and only 2/3 of them have to find you guilty of the charges. The punishment is unlimited as well.

There are 2 other types of court martial though, and I haven't heard which type these are being classified as. Considering the charges that will be leveled at them I'd be surprised if it is anything other than a general CM.

As for them talking about the Geneva Convention papers, it would be a useful tool for them to know what crosses the line between interrogation & torture. Mind you I consider the pictures shown on TV to be profane, but in other situations those Geneva papers could be quite handy in knowing the nuances of what is legal or not. I'd rather the soldiers be too informed than not enough.

bfp · 05-04-04, 01:23 PM

They should serve about 30 years in an Iraqi prison.

psyon · 05-04-04, 01:28 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by bfp
They should serve about 30 years in an Iraqi prison.

hold the phone....think I'd have to agree

05-04-04, 01:50 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by tentunkat
Hell, why dont' we send them to gitmo? (ha ha, just a thought)

Quote:

Originally posted by bfpThey should serve about 30 years in an Iraqi prison.

Truth is as much as I'd like to see that type of comic book justice handed out at times, that's a real bad idea. Right now we need to prove that we 'walk the walk' so to speak. There are plenty who aren't going to change their mind even if this is handled well. if

05-03-04, 12:01 PM	#1 (permalink)
psyon Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: anywhere but here Posts: 518	GIs diciplined http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/4855930/ Its says they "— have received the most severe level of administrative reprimand in the U.S. military" and "could spell the end of their careers" but "they would not face further action or court martial". Could someone with military knowledge explain to us what "most severe level of administrative reprimand in the U.S. military" consists of. And pardon my lack of military knowledge, but why the fuck aren't they being court martialed, and what would that mean? Please explain to me how this is more than just a slap on the wrist - which is what nearly always happens when shit like this goes down.

05-03-04, 02:01 PM	#3 (permalink)
Hey Bubu Funky Spunk Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: take a left at the cow Posts: 17,133	Shit is gonna hit the fan worldwide if these guys and gals don't get sent to jail. __________________ "We're so engaged in doing things to achieve purposes of outer value that we forget that the inner value, the rapture that is associated with being alive, is what it's all about." --Joseph Campbell,

05-03-04, 02:19 PM	#4 (permalink)
[aNNa] Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Nishinomiya, Japan Posts: 723	Re: GIs diciplined 32 boots’ shown in photo “Absolutely. One photograph showed — it didn’t show faces completely, but the photograph showed 32 boots,” Karpinski told ABC. “I’m saying other people than the military police.” It was not clear if that would include the seven soldiers reported reprimanded Monday. Karpinski’s lawyer, Neal Puckett, said on the same program that while his client received “an admonishment” from her commander, she has not been suspended or relieved of her command. apparently more are to blame (which i already suspected) and the so-called punishment does not seem to include suspension or being relieved of one's command. “We’re disposable,” she said of the military’s attitude toward reservists. “Why would they want the active-duty people to take the blame? They want to put this on the M.P.’s and hope that this thing goes away. Well, it’s not going to go away.” Karpinski told ABC the cell blocks at Abu Ghraib where some of the alleged abuse occurred were “under the military intelligence control.” cover ups, cover ups, and more cover ups. (which i already suspected as well given what i've read in the newspaper and just common sense) i expect the masterful illlision of punishment here. where illusion is the operative word. Last edited by [aNNa]; 05-03-04 at 02:28 PM.

05-04-04, 12:55 PM	#9 (permalink)
Element4040 Slackotron Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Lazerz! Posts: 2,464	Nothing short of Jail time will satisfy the majority of the American people. Bush is going to drop the ball once again. He has the opportunity to show the Iraqi people that this will not be tolerated. And they choose to try to cover it up. Brilliant move, Daddy would be proud. __________________ A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky, dangerous animals. Why don't you go get some people skills, cock lover? - Ber

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05-03-04, 01:25 PM	#2 (permalink)
tentunkat Guest Posts: n/a	As far as I know the administrative reprimand could be a number of things from dishonorable discharge to yanking their commission, knocking them down several notches in rank, extra duty, letters of reprimand, etc.... They make no mention of putting these people in jail. That's where they belong. We all know that if this were civilians right here on our shores engaging in the same behaviors they would face jail time at the very least. (Wasn't one of the prisoners found dead?) We all know that these are the very same types of actions that we supposedly went over there to prevent. C'mon, this country went to war over shit like this and they just get the end of their 'career'. I don't know what planet the assholes who will let them get off this easy live on. Regardless of quotes we get about how it was only a select few, this doesn't represent the entire United States, politicians being 'disghusted' by the behavior, the whole world is looking at us now more than ever. You and I as american citizens may understand that there is a great difference between sickos doing the torturing and the average american but most of the rest of the world right now doesn't care. We need to hammer them and lock them up tight. Hell, why dont' we send them to gitmo? (ha ha, just a thought)

05-03-04, 05:58 PM	#8 (permalink)
MysteryMeat Ain't your momma's meat Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 1,364	Good thing that George Bush made it so that the US military does not face tribunals for war crimes. whew by the way, check out this older little nugget of joy, brought to you by our boys in tan & green, the US Military : http://www.iol.co.za/index.php?click...6B265&set_id=1

05-04-04, 01:23 PM	#13 (permalink)
bfp Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: McKidney Posts: 4,278	They should serve about 30 years in an Iraqi prison.