If You Thought Adam was Hard on Reagan...

[Ryan]

Cuba no le gusta la Revolucion de Reagan.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,122042,00.html

[MysteryMeat]

Cuba: Reagan Should 'Never Have Been Born'

Monday, June 07, 2004

HAVANA — Cuba harshly criticized former President Ronald Reagan (search) and his policies on Monday, saying he should "never have been born."

In the first reaction to Reagan's death from the communist government, Radio Reloj (search) said:

"As forgetful and irresponsible as he was, he forgot to take his worst works to the grave," the government radio station said.

"He, who never should have been born, has died," the radio said.

The statement did not mention Cuba's relationship with the United States under Reagan, a staunch foe of communism.

It also did not mention Reagan's decision to order U.S. forces to invade the tiny Caribbean country of Grenada on Oct. 25, 1983, because Washington feared the island had grown too close to Cuba.

Since the early 1960s, Cuba and the United States have been without diplomatic relations, and Cuba has been under a U.S. trade embargo. But relations between the two countries were especially tense when Reagan was in office from 1981-1989.

Radio Reloj lambasted Reagan's military policies, especially the "Star Wars" anti-missile program (search). The initiative, launched when the Soviet Union still existed, rejected a long-standing doctrine built on the idea that neither superpower would start a nuclear war out of fear of annihilation by the other.

The radio also criticized Reagan's policies in Central America, where Washington backed a counterrevolutionary rebel army that fought against the leftist Sandinista government in Nicaragua. The United States also supported a conservative government that battled Marxist guerrillas during El Salvador's civil war.

"His apologists characterize him as the victor of the Cold War (search)," the radio said. "Those in the know knew that the reality was not so, but rather (he was) the destroyer of policies of detente in the overall quest for peace."

[johnny861]

Well, there was the Reagan Doctrine, which supported any anti-communist movement around the planet. I'm sure Cuba was never too impressed with that.

[Ryan]

And don't forget the invasion of Grenada. I don't think I would look fondly upon Ronald Reagan either if I were a Cuban.

Originally posted by johnny861
Well, there was the Reagan Doctrine, which supported any anti-communist movement around the planet. I'm sure Cuba was never too impressed with that.

That wasn't Reagan doctrine. That was the policy of the US and Western Europe from 1945 to 1991.

Do understand that in ithe mid 1970s the Soviets began a massive nuclear missile building and deployment program, in 1979 the Soviets successfully backed the coup in Nicaragua - they were in our back yard. The Hostages were taken in Iran. We had terrible inflation (the Prime Lending rate hit 22% !!!!!) terrible unemploymet, huge lines at the pump, etc etc etc - we looked very much like we were losing the cold war.


and btw - fuck Castro - he hated Reagan. Ask the Cubans who risk their lives to leave the island what they think of America.

[Satchel]

Didn't we back S Vietnam in their back yard on a MUCH greater scale? Didn't we end up with 4 times the nukes? I'm no commie, but I also think fighting communism is ridiculous.

[USAcommitteeX]

and btw - fuck Castro - he hated Reagan. Ask the Cubans who risk their lives to leave the island what they think of America.

Castro's own daughter fled Cuba

And don't forget the invasion of Grenada. I don't think I would look fondly upon Ronald Reagan either if I were a Cuban.

Just imagne if we would have flexed our military might against Cuba and Grenada during Operation Urgent Fury, it could have been much worse for them. Its kind of like Syria imposing their will on Lebanon, Cuba had no business in Grenada.

Originally posted by Satchel
Didn't we back S Vietnam in their back yard on a MUCH greater scale? Didn't we end up with 4 times the nukes? I'm no commie, but I also think fighting communism is ridiculous.

Not exactly (go look at your map and compare the relative distances Viet Nam is from Russia and Nicaragua from the US)

No

You need to learn a lot more about what happened in the Soviet Union if you don't think it was evil and worth fighting against.

[johnny861]

Originally posted by Satchel
Didn't we back S Vietnam in their back yard on a MUCH greater scale? Didn't we end up with 4 times the nukes? I'm no commie, but I also think fighting communism is ridiculous.

It's about as ridiculous as the Soviets fighting Democracy...


But nobody seemed to stop on either side...

[USAcommitteeX]

You need to learn a lot more about what happened in the Soviet Union if you don't think it was evil and worth fighting against.

The Soviets often encouraged the arabs to attack Israel, 1967 and 1973, and it was humiliateing to the Soviets, one defeat after another put a dent in the communist pride.

Originally posted by johnny861
It's about as ridiculous as the Soviets fighting Democracy...


But nobody seemed to stop on either side...

For that comment to have any credibility at all one must hold the systems of equal value.

History has shown us how unequal they are.

[Satchel]

History is still being written

[johnny861]

Originally posted by xiannaix
For that comment to have any credibility at all one must hold the systems of equal value.

History has shown us how unequal they are.

I understand, I gather the thought I was trying to convey was that it wasn't necessarily ridiculous to fight communism, nor was it necessarily ridiculous to fight democracy, given the state of affairs and beliefs during the cold war.... It's very easy to make an assessment of right and wrong in hindsight...

An american patriot's or a soviet patriot's reasoning to defeat one another, during that era, was subjective to what they thought and believed to be right over wrong and what they perceived their adversary to be.

Originally posted by Satchel
History is still being written

Uh - yeah - and the Soviet Chapter is over - go read it!

Originally posted by johnny861
I understand, I gather the thought I was trying to convey was that it wasn't necessarily ridiculous to fight communism, nor was it necessarily ridiculous to fight democracy, given the state of affairs and beliefs during the cold war.... It's very easy to make an assessment of right and wrong in hindsight...

An american patriot's or a soviet patriot's reasoning to defeat one another, during that era, was subjective to what they thought and believed to be right over wrong and what they perceived their adversary to be.

The number of Soviets killed by Soviets is an objective measure.

Leninism and Stalinism was a totalitarian nightmare that killed millions and millions when you factor OUT the wars they fought.

When you measure right and wrong by the number of your own citizens you kill it is hard to find the Soviets anything other than squarely wrong.

It is not some issue of point of view. Please, go find some one who lived in the Soviet Union and talk to them....preferrably someone who survived Stalin.

Too many Americans look at the Soviets like they were some harmless experiment gone awry - far from it.

check out how the Soviets dealt with popular unrest in peace time

Examples...Prague Spring 1968

Budapest 1956


In 1990 I was on a train going from Kiev to Vilnius. Lithuania had declared independence and the Soviet response was to send in the tanks.....only this time they merely blaockaded the city. Communication had gotten better. Tianamen had been broadcast - you believe that happened don't you? The Soviets eventually withdrew their tanks. My train got side railed and I watched for an hour as the trains carrying the Soviet tanks went back to the Ukraine. When's the last time you recall American tanks dispatched to put down an American city declaring independence?