Wide-spread support of bin Laden by the Saudis

[MysteryMeat]

Almost 1/2 of the Saudis rivals Bush's approval ratings when he was elected 4 years ago.... craziness.


Saudi poll: Wide support for bin Laden

By Henry Schuster
CNN
Tuesday, June 8, 2004 Posted: 8:24 PM EDT (0024 GMT)

(CNN) -- Almost half of all Saudis said in a poll conducted last year that they have a favorable view of Osama bin Laden's sermons and rhetoric, but fewer than 5 percent thought it was a good idea for bin Laden to rule the Arabian Peninsula.

The poll involved interviews with more than 15,000 Saudis and was overseen by Nawaf Obaid, a Saudi national security consultant.

It was conducted between August and November 2003, after simultaneous suicide attacks in May 2003 when 36 people were killed in Riyadh.

Obaid said he only recently decided to reveal the poll results because he felt the public needed to know about them.

"I was surprised [at the results], especially after the bombings," Obaid told CNN. The question put to Saudi citizens was "What is your opinion of Osama bin Laden's sermons and rhetoric?"

"They like what he said about what's going on in Iraq and Afghanistan. Or about America and the Zionist conspiracy. But what he does, that's where you see the huge drop," said Obaid, referring to the bombings that had already begun taking place inside Saudi Arabia at the time the poll was conducted.

He also said he would like to update the poll numbers in the wake of the recent series of terrorist attacks that have taken place in Saudi Arabia.

Forty-one percent said they favored strong and close relations with America, while only 39 percent said they had a favorable opinion of the Saudi armed forces, both results that Obaid also termed "surprising."

"They don't trust their army," said Obaid, who noted that the security forces fared far better.

He noted that less than a third of Saudis polled had a positive opinion of militant clerics, although government-appointed religious figures did better.

The poll showed strong support for political reforms and allowing women to play a greater role in society. Almost two-thirds said they favored allowing women to drive, something they are currently banned from doing.

While support for political reforms, particularly elections, was high, few Saudis viewed liberal reformers with much favor.

Obaid said he shared the poll results -- some of which were published today in The Washington Post -- with members of the Interior and Foreign ministries, as well as the royal court.

Some were "a bit wary" about the questions, Obaid said, particularly the ones relating to bin Laden, but he received support from the government when he conducted the poll.

The margin of error was plus or minus three percentage points.

[USAcommitteeX]

All the more reason to support the Saudi royal family, their military has vastly improved then what it was in the past, thanks to the Great Satan and its zionist allies. I support the removal of Saddam in Iraq and Taliban in Afghanistan, but not turning Iraq into a democracy, Arabs and democracy don't mix, their societies have always been unstable compared to the West, coup here and a coup there.

[Keith P]

All the more reason to support the Saudi royal family, their military has vastly improved then what it was in the past, thanks to the Great Satan and its zionist allies. I support the removal of Saddam in Iraq and Taliban in Afghanistan, but not turning Iraq into a democracy, Arabs and democracy don't mix, their societies have always been unstable compared to the West, coup here and a coup there.

we would be the same if our country was governed by a christian theocracy.
I know its not to the same extreme as different muslim sects...but there would still be quite a bit of turmoil if such a theocracy is in place.
I wouldn't go as far as saying that there would be mass violence but if certain denominations which believe catholics are evil, only the born again are saved etc.
Well if these people held power the country would be in constant conflict.
This is why people cherish the seperation of church and state.
All you have to do is look to the middle east if you want an example of what happens when religion and politics go hand in hand.
Deep rooted problems like these exist throughout the world.
I'm sure its safe to say this is one of the driving forces behind the secularist's cause.

[Krash]

Originally posted by USAcommitteeX
All the more reason to support the Saudi royal family, their military has vastly improved then what it was in the past, thanks to the Great Satan and its zionist allies. I support the removal of Saddam in Iraq and Taliban in Afghanistan, but not turning Iraq into a democracy, Arabs and democracy don't mix, their societies have always been unstable compared to the West, coup here and a coup there.

Did you really just post that? "Arabs and democracy don't mix"?

That is perhaps the most arrogant post I have ever seen, well done.

[USAcommitteeX]

Supposedly democracy contradicts Islam.

[Krash]

Originally posted by USAcommitteeX
Supposedly democracy contradicts Islam.

First of all, though the majority are muslim, being muslim does not automatically follow being an arab. Secondly, democracy pretty much contradicts every religion.

Originally posted by USAcommitteeX
All the more reason to support the Saudi royal family, their military has vastly improved then what it was in the past, thanks to the Great Satan and its zionist allies. I support the removal of Saddam in Iraq and Taliban in Afghanistan, but not turning Iraq into a democracy, Arabs and democracy don't mix, their societies have always been unstable compared to the West, coup here and a coup there.

Wait....support the Saudi royal family? A ruling elite that blatently violates human rights laws, international finance laws, and American laws when visiting?
Arabs and democracy dont mix? Thats like saying that blacks shouldnt be in the military cause they are naturally cowardly, or cant see at night. Or that Jews are all greedy schisters, or that white people cant dance, or maybe women cant play sports and should stay at home cause they cant handle the pressure of the workplace. Or saying all orientals are good at math.
You arrogant shit. Just say it....youre racist against Arabs and Muslims.

[Adam D]

Originally posted by USAcommitteeX
All the more reason to support the Saudi royal family, their military has vastly improved then what it was in the past, thanks to the Great Satan and its zionist allies. I support the removal of Saddam in Iraq and Taliban in Afghanistan, but not turning Iraq into a democracy, Arabs and democracy don't mix, their societies have always been unstable compared to the West, coup here and a coup there.

Pretty much every religion contradicts democracy, as Krash pointed out. Democracy is based on secular rights while religion is based on sacred duties and beliefs. It's all about finding a suitable mix that allows people to freely believe and freely express their beliefs while maintaining an open system that does not force religion as the ruling order.

But if we're going to talk about coups and instability against democracy, that's pretty much true of the entire third world. There have been countless coups and dictatorships across Latin America, Africa, and all across Africa. And that's not to say the same things never happened in Europe, either.

You also have to look at the history of the Middle East, as well as other third world areas to really understand the reason why there's such instability. A lot of it comes from the legacy of European colonialization, which divided much of the world on arbitrary lines that grouped together often incompatable populations. Sometimes this was done purposefully to keep instability so the population of the colonies would not rise up against the colonial powers. The Brits were exceptionally good at doing this. Repeatedly they took opposing groups and would arm one against the other to control the region. They also took peaceful relations between groups and would arm one over the other and destroy the peaceful relationship. We still see the effects of that today. Sometimes conflicting groups just ended up together because the colonial powers drew lines and didn't care about the indigenous populations. There's a lot of conflict still today trying to straighten out where borders and sovereignty should lie.

You also have to look at the outside interventions by Western powers in those coups, and recognize that a lot of them were not popular uprisings against democracy. Many of them were CIA-backed coups to empower either military dictators or wealthy elites who would willingly support the US. Some of the revolutions were pro-democracy, such as the initial coup that kicked the Shah out of Iran, or the current building revolution in Iran. Where the western powers have been involved, revolutions have resulted in oppressive and unpopular regimes. More often than not, when the revolution was popular and indigenous, it resulted in a more democratic regimes. It's not universally true, obviously the 1979 revolution in Iran is a glaring rebuttal, but on balance it's far more true than not.

[Element4040]

15,000 people that's hardly a poll.

[Adam D]

Originally posted by Element4040
15,000 people that's hardly a poll.

polls in the US generally only consist of 1,000 people.

[c double]

USAcommie does have a point, in that it's not in US or anyone in the West's interest to bring democracy to Arab countries. But according to Bush and co. that is the goal of all the intervention, ahem, empire building, we're doing over there.

USA is a perfect example of a blindly ignorant supporter of the regime. Even though they're smart enough to understand that the exact opposite of the president's statements are usually true, they are all under some sort of hypnosis that prevents them from acknowledging the dishonesty and propaganda. Even though they understand the real objectives, they support the facade of trying to make the world a better place (for everyone not just us). This is Bush's doctrine of compassionate conservatism. Take control of everyone, and tell them it's for their own good.

[Dionysos]

Originally posted by Dropzone
Wait....support the Saudi royal family? A ruling elite that blatently violates human rights laws, international finance laws, and American laws when visiting?
Arabs and democracy dont mix? Thats like saying that blacks shouldnt be in the military cause they are naturally cowardly, or cant see at night. Or that Jews are all greedy schisters, or that white people cant dance, or maybe women cant play sports and should stay at home cause they cant handle the pressure of the workplace. Or saying all orientals are good at math.
You arrogant shit. Just say it....youre racist against Arabs and Muslims.

Dropzone's sensitive because he's a WNBA season-ticket holder.

[MysteryMeat]

Originally posted by Element4040
15,000 people that's hardly a poll.

Don't make me come in here.....

[Element4040]

Originally posted by Adam D
polls in the US generally only consist of 1,000 people.

Good point, but..............

[Element4040]

Originally posted by MysteryMeat
Don't make me come in here.....

Even though I am poking fun a bit at the 15,000 people number. I still think it's a fairly accurate assumption of the overall feeling towards the US.