Florida's electronic voting devices

[PointBender]

Has anyone seen any new coverage on the scary new trend going on in Florida? These little mini laptop devices they have apparently are extreamly easy to tamper with and if there batteries go dead without recharging then they loose their internal memory making it impossible to go back and recount votes. Turns out they had to make a whole division of internal security to oversee the florida voting practices in 2004. Thats kinda scary and makes you wonder about 4 years ago in Florida!

[johnny861]

Billions of electronic financial transactions happen every year with minimal problems.

Billions of transactions happen every years across ESS networks ensuring phone networks stay alive and trouble spots are addresses as quickly and effeciently as possible. In many places, the phones will stay on even when the power stays off...


You'd THINK they'd figure out electronic voting without the whole country freaking out about it...

[MysteryMeat]

Originally posted by johnny861
Billions of electronic financial transactions happen every year with minimal problems.

Billions of transactions happen every years across ESS networks ensuring phone networks stay alive and trouble spots are addresses as quickly and effeciently as possible. In many places, the phones will stay on even when the power stays off...


You'd THINK they'd figure out electronic voting without the whole country freaking out about it...

It's not just about the machines. It's the fact that the election decides a person who most directly affects the economy of this country, as well as several others world-wide.

You throw that much money interest into the equation, and I don't doubt for a second that greedy fuckers won't do anything in their power to make sure they KEEP making money.

Hackers are too damned good these days, and electronic machines are too easy to manipulate. I think its still improper at this point in the information age to rest the vote of 'the most powerful position in the world' on electronic machines.

[johnny861]

Originally posted by MysteryMeat
It's not just about the machines. It's the fact that the election decides a person who most directly affects the economy of this country, as well as several others world-wide.

Since when did the President directly affect the economy???
Please explain that one...



You throw that much money interest into the equation, and I don't doubt for a second that greedy fuckers won't do anything in their power to make sure they KEEP making money.


If you are talking about Interest Groups that represent corporations, these guys hit every politician... they don't put all their eggs into one basket. That would be just silly. A lot of back-scratching occurs on many levels



Hackers are too damned good these days, and electronic machines are too easy to manipulate. I think its still improper at this point in the information age to rest the vote of 'the most powerful position in the world' on electronic machines.


But you are fine with ATM transactions, stock markets, TRW and several trillion in misc. electronic transactions floating about in cyberspace, of which billions are flowing over the internet...

I guess you have faith where you want it...

BTW, most hackers are counter-culture and generally anti-conservative...

Trust me, if a hacker wants to hack the voting machines, they are going to rig them to vote somebody TOTALLY obscure into office, just to prove a point that those systems could be hacked.

[MysteryMeat]

Originally posted by johnny861
But you are fine with ATM transactions, stock markets, TRW and several trillion in misc. electronic transactions floating about in cyberspace, of which billions are flowing over the internet...

None of which has a central residential point like the presidency.

BTW, most hackers are counter-culture and generally anti-conservative...

Trust me, if a hacker wants to hack the voting machines, they are going to rig them to vote somebody TOTALLY obscure into office, just to prove a point that those systems could be hacked.

I'm not talking about hackers working on their own to prove a point (if that were to be what happened with any inpropriety). I'm talking about people hiring compter savvy people(s) with the drive to keep one party in office & keep them making money.



BTW, the 'directly influential' comment should more aptly described as 'heavily indirectly influential'. The actions of a president, domestic and abroad GREATLY affect this country's economy. Not only that, he has executive veto power that assists in said goal.

[johnny861]

Originally posted by MysteryMeat
None of which has a central residential point like the presidency.

But both have a congress to keep them in check from time to time I suppose...




I'm not talking about hackers working on their own to prove a point (if that were to be what happened with any inpropriety). I'm talking about people hiring compter savvy people(s) with the drive to keep one party in office & keep them making money.



I can see the resume on Monster.com

Job: pt time/ contract: Computer savvy guys
Salary: 20.50/hr plus medical

Needed: computer savvy people to commit acts of treason against the United States.

Must have experience with voting machines
Must be willing to relocate

Paid for by the Bush Cheney '04 Campaign




BTW, the 'directly influential' comment should more aptly described as 'heavily indirectly influential'. The actions of a president, domestic and abroad GREATLY affect this country's economy. Not only that, he has executive veto power that assists in said goal.


You must be right... I'm mean it's been two wars and we're still trying to hammer out that sugar trade deal with Australia so we can keep Canada from stiffing us.

On the other hand, I suppose all that indirect influence fighting the wars has created some job stability in a couple of defense sectors.



His indirect influence is what it is... indirect at best... he can't drive the economy in any real fashion.... the indirect influence is more like a byproduct of his actions in the office.

It's like saying I need to poop solid poop, but i'm kinda runny at the moment, but if I drink some pepto, that might help, but there's no garuntee it will come out a nice soft brown... perhaps a dark black and a little tough around the edges...

[Adam D]

I don't see why we need new voting technology if people still haven't mastered the old technology.

[hepkatmama]

Originally posted by johnny861
His indirect influence is what it is... indirect at best... he can't drive the economy in any real fashion.... the indirect influence is more like a byproduct of his actions in the office.
[/B]

ok let me remind all of u that there are 3 branches of govt.

the president is the head of the executive branch & is legally allowed to make interim decisions that DIRECTLY effect the nation's economy and defecit (especially when his veto power is applied to federal budgets)

for example: the president can send us to battle for x months before congress has officially labeled the action as a war.
the cost of this military action is directly related to his choice to send troops.

it has been proven time & time again that the % of 18 year olds serving in the military (i.e. their employer) directly relates foreign policy to the nation's economy.



but adam makes a very valid point... how can we do recounts on a piece of fallible technology?

how would the civil rights movement have progressed in the 60's if there were not tangible paper votes to count?

it was less than 40 years ago that voting was such a hot topic... the moral of the story then as now... paper votes = democracy

[MysteryMeat]

Originally posted by hepkatmama
ok let me remind all of u that there are 3 branches of govt.

the president is the head of the executive branch & is legally allowed to make interim decisions that DIRECTLY effect the nation's economy and defecit (especially when his veto power is applied to federal budgets)

for example: the president can send us to battle for x months before congress has officially labeled the action as a war.
the cost of this military action is directly related to his choice to send troops.

it has been proven time & time again that the % of 18 year olds serving in the military (i.e. their employer) directly relates foreign policy to the nation's economy.



but adam makes a very valid point... how can we do recounts on a piece of fallible technology?

how would the civil rights movement have progressed in the 60's if there were not tangible paper votes to count?

it was less than 40 years ago that voting was such a hot topic... the moral of the story then as now... paper votes = democracy

Let me also remind you that during the Bush administration, Congress wrote the executive branch a blank check, and the checks and balances in this country are nowhere near what they were originally intended to be.

Save the US GOVT. 1301 rhetoric for the saps; check it out in real life.

[johnny861]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by hepkatmama
ok let me remind all of u that there are 3 branches of govt.

the president is the head of the executive branch & is legally allowed to make interim decisions that DIRECTLY effect the nation's economy and defecit (especially when his veto power is applied to federal budgets)

for example: the president can send us to battle for x months before congress has officially labeled the action as a war.
the cost of this military action is directly related to his choice to send troops.

it has been proven time & time again that the % of 18 year olds serving in the military (i.e. their employer) directly relates foreign policy to the nation's economy.


While it is logical that there is affect on the defense sectors and government sectors, I still don't see how this directly affects the private sector, the back-bone of our economy







but adam makes a very valid point... how can we do recounts on a piece of fallible technology?

how would the civil rights movement have progressed in the 60's if there were not tangible paper votes to count?

it was less than 40 years ago that voting was such a hot topic... the moral of the story then as now... paper votes = democracy


Or better yet, how do we trust ourselves to make a proper vote free of corruption... people in small towns rising up from the dead to cast their vote...

[hepkatmama]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by johnny861

Originally posted by hepkatmama

it has been proven time & time again that the % of 18 year olds serving in the military (i.e. their employer) directly relates foreign policy to the nation's economy.


While it is logical that there is affect on the defense sectors and government sectors, I still don't see how this directly affects the private sector, the back-bone of our economy

because when defense requires an excessive number of the private sectors' workforce it alters the foundation of the economy.

if all those kids weren't fighting in iraq right now, do u still think they would get a paycheck from the govt or rather a private employer?

that is just one example tho...




& i don't see the electronic voting systems correcting LBJ's old trick of "digging up new votes". does anyone remember how that whole scheme got broken up in south texas? i know the politcos doing it ended up getting caught "graverobbing" so to speak.

[johnny861]

Originally posted by hepkatmama [/B]

because when defense requires an excessive number of the private sectors' workforce it alters the foundation of the economy.




Well, The US typically spends annually on defense about $291.2 billion dollars vs. our budget revenues of $1.946 trillion...

So we are looking at defense having a potential impact of up to 15% of the economy. While that in itself can be significant to a degree, it is still indirect to the other sectors with little or no involvement with defense, potentially controlling up to 85% of the economy.



if all those kids weren't fighting in iraq right now, do u still think they would get a paycheck from the govt or rather a private employer?

that is just one example tho...


Well, considering Iraq has no relavence on the fact that these kids volunteered willingly to join the armed forces, I'd say it would be no different in war time, nor in peace time. They are being compensated for their time in the military.



& i don't see the electronic voting systems correcting LBJ's old trick of "digging up new votes". does anyone remember how that whole scheme got broken up in south texas? i know the politcos doing it ended up getting caught "graverobbing" so to speak.


I agree, I was using that as an example of the ongoing corrupting nature of humankind. That it plays no relavence on what technology platform we base our votes on, be it pen and paper or silicon... It's a play on people's fears is all, nothing more, the same problem is there.

[hepkatmama]

Originally posted by johnny861


& i don't see the electronic voting systems correcting LBJ's old trick of "digging up new votes". does anyone remember how that whole scheme got broken up in south texas? i know the politcos doing it ended up getting caught "graverobbing" so to speak.


I agree, I was using that as an example of the ongoing corrupting nature of humankind. That it plays no relavence on what technology platform we base our votes on, be it pen and paper or silicon... It's a play on people's fears is all, nothing more, the same problem is there.

technology platform has no relevence?

that is crazy

that is saying that if the polls got struck by lightning the lack of electricity would have no relevence on how quickly the votes could be counted.

people fear vote tampering will undermine democracy

that seems pretty legitimate

doubling the type of "technology" involved in casting votes until paper vs. electronic can be compared to one another is just a necessary inconvenience. we can't just give up paper votes cause of some lobbyist influenced novelty.

we have to set a good example for developing countries.

[johnny861]

Originally posted by hepkatmama
technology platform has no relevence?

that is crazy

that is saying that if the polls got struck by lightning the lack of electricity would have no relevence on how quickly the votes could be counted.

people fear vote tampering will undermine democracy

that seems pretty legitimate

doubling the type of "technology" involved in casting votes until paper vs. electronic can be compared to one another is just a necessary inconvenience. we can't just give up paper votes cause of some lobbyist influenced novelty.

we have to set a good example for developing countries.

It wouldn't if they are in fact battery powered, but now we are just nit picking the issue.


Moving forward electronically with government has great potential to usher us closer to the possibilities of allowing a more direct democracy than what we have today. What's been coined techno-democracy to alleviate the logistical obstacles faced with bringing direct democracy to the United States on any level of government. You'll remember back to Ross Perot advocating the concept of the "electronic town hall" back in the 1992 campaign.

I have found out a lot of interesting info over the last 6 months. There is a lot of interest in local governments across Texas that have voiced interest in various forms of techno democracy, online community involvement, etc. From people I've gotten to talk to and through counties and local communities my father does business with, they have a whole variety of reasons for going this direction, but there's a lot of things to work through.

I'll leave it at that, but what I feel is that we should be pushing for technology in government and more direct interactivity between the people and government. Parchment has taken us quite a distance, but it's important to advocate technology today, to ensure there will be tools tomorrow that will enforce more dialog between government and the people.

[Element4040]

Originally posted by johnny861
It wouldn't if they are in fact battery powered, but now we are just nit picking the issue.


Moving forward electronically with government has great potential to usher us closer to the possibilities of allowing a more direct democracy than what we have today. What's been coined techno-democracy to alleviate the logistical obstacles faced with bringing direct democracy to the United States on any level of government. You'll remember back to Ross Perot advocating the concept of the "electronic town hall" back in the 1992 campaign.

I have found out a lot of interesting info over the last 6 months. There is a lot of interest in local governments across Texas that have voiced interest in various forms of techno democracy, online community involvement, etc. From people I've gotten to talk to and through counties and local communities my father does business with, they have a whole variety of reasons for going this direction, but there's a lot of things to work through.

I'll leave it at that, but what I feel is that we should be pushing for technology in government and more direct interactivity between the people and government. Parchment has taken us quite a distance, but it's important to advocate technology today, to ensure there will be tools tomorrow that will enforce more dialog between government and the people.

Yeah, what Johnny said.