Ludwig Wittgenstein would have said, I told you so...

[johnny861]

Or perhaps in his own words:

"If we spoke a different language, we would perceive a different world."
--Ludwig Wittgenstein



Numberless Tribe Proves the Unthinkable
Unable to count, group without precise number system shows how language limits thought


The theory that language limits thought has received a boost from a tribe that lacks a precise number system and can subsequently conceive only of "one", "two" and "many."

Researcher Peter Gordon of the University of Columbia in New York City, New York set out to investigate the Sapir-Whorf hypothesis, which states that there are certain concepts in one language that cannot be understood by those who use another language.

While languages have different ways to describe things, it has generally been accepted that there would always be some way in which one could capture the equivalent meaning in any other language.

Gordon had a unique opportunity to test this theory by studying a group of people who use a "one-two-many" system, where quantities beyond two are not counted but are simply referred to as "many."

If a culture is limited to such a counting system, is it possible for them to perceive or conceptualize quantities beyond those denoted by their number system?

Pirahã counting system

Gordon set out to answer this question by studying the Pirahã tribe, an Amazonian people who maintain a hunter-gatherer existence and largely reject assimilation into mainstream Brazilian culture.

The Pirahã counting system consists of the words "hói" (one), "hoí" (two) and "baagi" or "aibai" (many). They don't use the words in combinations such as "hói-hoí" to assign larger quantities, and the words for one and two are not always used to denote those quantities.

The word for two always stands for a larger quantity than the word for one, however, the word for "one" is sometimes used to indicate just a small quantity such as two or three or sometimes more. One particularly interesting finding, says Gordon, is that "hói" appears to designate "roughly one".

Inconceivable quantities

Gordon developed a systematic set of procedures for evaluating the numerical competence of members of the tribe.

The experiments were designed to employ a combination of cognitive skills such as memory, speed of encoding and mental-spatial transformations to reveal the extent to which such task demands interact with numerical ability.

For a matching test designed as a substitute for counting, Gordon enlisted seven members of the tribe. He sat across from them, with a stick dividing his side from theirs, and presented objects such as sticks and berries on his side of the stick, to which tribe members were to respond by matching the number that the items represented with AA batteries.

In these matching experiments, the participants responded with relatively good accuracy with up to two or three items, but their performance deteriorated considerably when asked to match items that exceeded eight.

In another test that required participants to keep track of a numerical quantity through visual displacement, the participants were allowed to inspect an array of nuts for about eight seconds. The nuts were then placed in a can, and withdrawn one at a time. Participants were required to say, after each withdrawal, if there were still any nuts left in the can, or if it was empty. Performance was predictably strongly affected by set size from the very smallest quantities.

Linguistic determinism

The results of these studies show that the Pirahã's impoverished counting system limits their ability to enumerate exact quantities when set sizes exceed two or three items. The Pirahã have just the abilities to exactly enumerate small sets of less than three items if processing factors are not unduly taxing.

In evaluating the case for linguistic determinism—that a person's worldview is largely determined by the vocabulary and syntax available in his or her language—Gordon suggests that the Pirahã language is unequal to languages that have counting systems that enable exact enumeration.

"The present study represents a rare and perhaps unique case for strong linguistic determinism," says Gordon. "The study also provides a window into how the possibly innate distinction between quantifying small versus large sets of objects is relatively unelaborated in a life without number words to capture those exact magnitudes."

The research is reported in the journal Science.

[Funkenstein]

Very nice, J861. My only contribution to this is the following question:

If it is limited, what do you do about it? These folks may not want to learn a numerical system and you can't force it upon them. Does this mean that they should/would be shunned for not wanting the knowledge? Or would the progress of the world slowly overtake them and force them to conform one day anyway?

[johnny861]

Originally Posted by rufuspfunk

Very nice, J861. My only contribution to this is the following question:

If it is limited, what do you do about it? These folks may not want to learn a numerical system and you can't force it upon them. Does this mean that they should/would be shunned for not wanting the knowledge? Or would the progress of the world slowly overtake them and force them to conform one day anyway?

I think this experiment is more a reflection on ourselves and the possibility of our own mental limitations of which language plays a strong part. Language simply organizes our thoughts into a medium for knowledge transfer, but so much vital information is lost in the transfer... leading us to crossed signals, conflicts and ignorance.

Writers over 1000's of years have worked to embellish their words to convey more information about the experience of history, the emotion and the mindset of those that experienced or were to experience such historical events.

You end up with great works in history, and historical accounts? lost in the myth of the writings themselves... So the communication can only be carried only so far until future generations begin to fail to understand the accounts...

Our world is limited only by the words with which we have to describe them... now imagine, communication of the future where language no longer played a key part in the sharing of knowledge, it would open us up to a whole new realm of possibilities...

An experiment like this should encourage future technologies and methodologies such as "tech-lepathy", backed up with math as a fundemental language and who knows, there could be no bounds to human understanding.