Double Standard

[bfp]

http://www.johnkerry.com/pressroom/r...004_0427b.html


You can't have it both ways Johnny boy.

[Ryan]

Hey, I agree with you. It was dumb to bring it up in the first place and most importantly, IT DOES NOT MATTER. We have more important issues facing this country than what our president was doing 30 years ago. Everyone needs to move on.

[question]

I think we can all agree on this.

this whole stupid election is going to be GAY!!!!!!!

[bfp]

Michael Peroutka

Originally Posted by Ryan

Hey, I agree with you. It was dumb to bring it up in the first place and most importantly, IT DOES NOT MATTER. We have more important issues facing this country than what our president was doing 30 years ago. Everyone needs to move on.

Here's why it does matter.....

"I'm John Kerry and I'm reporting for duty"

He's repeatedly (and exhaustively) referenced his service.

He's made the claim that that his service in Viet Nam is what demonstrates that he will be a strong defender of our nation.

He's refused to release his entire service record that could very well resolved many of these issues of fact surrounding his medals.

In short - a) Kerry brought it up b) he got questioned on his record c) he didn't answer with fact or with opening his record to silence his critics - he attacked Bush for not disavowing the criticism and attacked the critics motives (clearly their motive is to discredit Kerry - that's not up for debate)


So, just release the damn records John and put this issue to rest..... PLEASE

[Ryan]

Originally Posted by xiannaix

Here's why it does matter.....

"I'm John Kerry and I'm reporting for duty"

He's repeatedly (and exhaustively) referenced his service.

He's made the claim that that his service in Viet Nam is what demonstrates that he will be a strong defender of our nation.

He's refused to release his entire service record that could very well resolved many of these issues of fact surrounding his medals.

In short - a) Kerry brought it up b) he got questioned on his record c) he didn't answer with fact or with opening his record to silence his critics - he attacked Bush for not disavowing the criticism and attacked the critics motives (clearly their motive is to discredit Kerry - that's not up for debate)


So, just release the damn records John and put this issue to rest..... PLEASE

The only reason it matters is because you all need some way to get Bush's numbers in the polls up as the election draws close and you certainly cannot boast about his achievements or his platform.

Originally Posted by Ryan

The only reason it matters is because you all need some way to get Bush's numbers in the polls up as the election draws close and you certainly cannot boast about his achievements or his platform.

Ryan...... Kerry brought this crap up. Bush certainly never wanted to go anywhere near the Viet Nam issue - he ran from that as far and fast as he could. It was Kerry that thrust the issue into the debate. Quit claiming it was Bush for crying out loud and maybe suggest to Kerry that "reporting for duty" was a stupid thing to say because its getting rammed down his throat now. You're complaining that Kerry's getting slammed on an issue Kerry raised and then blaming the criticism on Bush - - who had nothing to do with it. Demand that Kerry release his military records so he can silence his critics!

[USAcommitteeX]

John Kerry's Standard Form 180

[Satchel]

I think it would be cool if they both cleared up their military issues. Not gonna happen though. So what we have is the public record. Kerry: fought, wounded, medals. Bush: never in combat. It's only a negative on Kerry if you choose to believe his accusers and not Bush's. I don't think that will be the case for anyone who already doens't have their mind made up.

Originally Posted by Satchel

I think it would be cool if they both cleared up their military issues. Not gonna happen though. So what we have is the public record. Kerry: fought, wounded, medals. Bush: never in combat. It's only a negative on Kerry if you choose to believe his accusers and not Bush's. I don't think that will be the case for anyone who already doens't have their mind made up.

But, Bush did release his military records and Kerry didn't. Kerry's refusal may be read as an attempt to hide something... after all, if there was nothing damaging or better still, if his records could refute his critics do you not think he'd release his records? It's specious to suggest that he's standing on principal and refusing to release exculpating information simply because he wants his records private. Kerry's the one who has put a limitation in the public record - if the deficiency of that refusal hurts him - he's only got himself to blame.

Further, we can distinguish their records. Kerry's got some of his military record released and all of his congressional testimony. Kerry IS running on his Viet Nam service - he's claiming credit for something 30+ years ago. Bush, as I said above, ran far and fast from his - he's NOT claiming credit for something 30+ years ago (there's nothing there to claim credit for quite bluntly). However, Bush IS running on his most recent service as C-in-C.... which one can support or oppose - but its not really difficult to understand what it is. Now Kerry's record - we have more difficulty with - and that is entirely Kerry's fault.

[Satchel]

I'm not talking about who is to blame or who brought what up. That's insignificant as far as I'm concerned. My point is that every second Viet Nam is mentioned it's a win for Kerry in my opinion. Most rational people can see that Bush took us into 2 wars without being willing to fight in one himself. They don't have to dig deep into the details to see that, and let's face it most will not.

[Ryan]

Originally Posted by xiannaix

Ryan...... Kerry brought this crap up. Bush certainly never wanted to go anywhere near the Viet Nam issue - he ran from that as far and fast as he could. It was Kerry that thrust the issue into the debate. Quit claiming it was Bush for crying out loud and maybe suggest to Kerry that "reporting for duty" was a stupid thing to say because its getting rammed down his throat now. You're complaining that Kerry's getting slammed on an issue Kerry raised and then blaming the criticism on Bush - - who had nothing to do with it. Demand that Kerry release his military records so he can silence his critics!

I'm not blaming the criticism on Bush. In fact, I don't believe I have ever blamed it on Bush. I have said that it is a pointless issue and it's ridiculous that there are 10 new threads every day in here discussing the tired issue. It's ridiculous that this is the only solid leg the Bush supporters have to stand on when the election is 10 weeks away and Bush is getting rammed in the polls. If he is truly the better choice for America, then he should win on his own merits, not on the discredit of a decorated war veteran. I don't care what Bush did in the military 30 years ago, what he was snorting 25 years ago, or what he was drinking 20 years ago when he got arrested, and I don't care how many shots were fired at Kerry on the river that day in Vietnam. We will never know the unbiased truth so all you are doing is repeating what you heard from a third- or forth-hand witness with a slanted political agenda. I expect this level of lameness from bfp, but it's beneath you. This is the most pointless and unproductive debate of this election year and it needs to end.

/out

Originally Posted by Satchel

I'm not talking about who is to blame or who brought what up. That's insignificant as far as I'm concerned. My point is that every second Viet Nam is mentioned it's a win for Kerry in my opinion. Most rational people can see that Bush took us into 2 wars without being willing to fight in one himself. They don't have to dig deep into the details to see that, and let's face it most will not.

fair enough

I disagree on the conclusion though. I think people don't want to hear about Viet Nam - I think it pisses them off. I think people see Kerry as the one who won't let it go to sleep. But.... that pure opinion of course.

Originally Posted by Ryan

I'm not blaming the criticism on Bush. In fact, I don't believe I have ever blamed it on Bush. I have said that it is a pointless issue and it's ridiculous that there are 10 new threads every day in here discussing the tired issue. It's ridiculous that this is the only solid leg the Bush supporters have to stand on when the election is 10 weeks away and Bush is getting rammed in the polls. If he is truly the better choice for America, then he should win on his own merits, not on the discredit of a decorated war veteran. I don't care what Bush did in the military 30 years ago, what he was snorting 25 years ago, or what he was drinking 20 years ago when he got arrested, and I don't care how many shots were fired at Kerry on the river that day in Vietnam. We will never know the unbiased truth so all you are doing is repeating what you heard from a third- or forth-hand witness with a slanted political agenda. I expect this level of lameness from bfp, but it's beneath you. This is the most pointless and unproductive debate of this election year and it needs to end.

/out

Bush isn't standing on this leg per your own admission.

I agree that he should (as well as Kerry) run in the merits.

As I noted above - this whole issue does have merit - and it only has merit because of Kerry's stupid decision to make this the centerpiece of his campaign .... which, oddly enough, is why the pro-Bush camp is currently focusing on it - weird huh?

As for the slur of "lameness" - I'm merely retorting to your comments Ryan. I'd appreciate keeping the debate on the debate. I too would love to see this whole issue go away. Kerry's got the power to make that happen. If you want unbiased - all Kerry needs to do is release his records.

I do look forward to hearing actual comments from Bush. We can probably agree that we've heard little from him recently (not sure if he's said little - but we've heard little). I look forward to hearing something substantive from him.