Swifties vs John Kerry

[bfp]

T Sowell

Senator John Kerry's running mate, Senator John Edwards, has said melodramatically: "Ask the men who served with him in Vietnam!" But now that men who served with Kerry in Vietnam are coming forward and contradicting Kerry's version of what happened there, Senator Edwards is calling it a "smear."

Apparently we are to listen only to those veterans who were hand-picked by the Kerry campaign.

One of the photos used by the Kerry campaign shows Kerry as a young Navy lieutenant, surrounded by 20 of his fellow service men in Vietnam -- a "band of brothers." But now a new book says that a majority of the men in that photo have objected to having their pictures used in support of Kerry's candidacy for President.

Nearly 200 Vietnam veterans, including many from Kerry's old unit, have organized as Vietnam Veterans for Truth to actively oppose John Kerry and a new book titled "Unfit for Command" by John O'Neill repeatedly contradicts Kerry's version of events in Vietnam. There are of course other books with other views on the subject, notably "Tour of Duty" by Douglas Brinkley, with a pro-Kerry slant. If you enjoyed the movie "Rashomon," where different people had radically different memories of the same events, you will love reading O'Neill's book and Brinkley's book together.

The Kerry version of events begins with his volunteering to serve in the Vietnam war. The O'Neill version has Kerry's draft board rejecting his application for a deferment and Kerry then enlisting in the Naval Reserve -- not the Navy, as in Brinkley's book.

Enlisting in the Naval Reserves is not very different from enlisting in the National Guard. The big difference is that John Kerry happened to get sent to Vietnam and George Bush did not. But those decisions were made by people far above them in the military chain of command.

Yet some in the media and elsewhere have acted as if it was heroic for John Kerry to have enlisted in the Naval Reserve and cowardly for George Bush to have enlisted in the National Guard. But none has bothered to show what essential difference -- if any -- there is between these two back-up branches of service.

Both O'Neill's book and Brinkley's book have numerous footnotes to document what they say about very specific events. With all the investigative reporters in this country, someone ought to be able to track down many of the controverted facts and settle these things.

But with Beltway journalists favoring Kerry's election by 12 to 1, according to a New York Times poll, there may not be so much zest for facts this election year.

One discrepancy that does not require much research arises from John Kerry's statement that he was in Cambodia at Christmas time in 1968, while President Nixon was assuring the world that there were no American forces in Cambodia.

Richard Nixon was not yet President of the United States in December 1968. He had been elected in November but, like other Presidents, he did not take office until January 20th.

The ferocity of Kerry's media defenders was exemplified in Chris Matthews' browbeating of columnist Michelle Malkin on his "Hardball" program when she questioned Kerry's Purple Hearts. Matthews repeatedly demanded to know if she was saying that Kerry had deliberately shot himself.

That was never the charge made by the Vietnam Veterans for Truth. Those who were there say that there was no enemy fire, that Kerry on two occasions accidentally injured himself when shrapnel from his own grenades nicked him, and later an enemy mine also got him. The doctor who treated Kerry said that he removed a tiny fragment with tweezers, put a Band-Aid on the spot -- and refused to certify it as a wound that merited a Purple Heart.

Kerry's commanding officer at the time likewise rejected Kerry's application for a Purple Heart, according to O'Neill. Later, Kerry got a Purple Heart through another commanding officer who knew nothing about the incident and took Kerry's word for it.

Maybe the media could put some of the energy that they spend trying to discredit Kerry's critics into finding out what the facts are. Or don't they dare risk finding out?

[Gator]

[bfp]

Sowell always sheds some light on the current issues. I would have never thought about this.

Enlisting in the Naval Reserves is not very different from enlisting in the National Guard. The big difference is that John Kerry happened to get sent to Vietnam and George Bush did not. But those decisions were made by people far above them in the military chain of command.

Yet some in the media and elsewhere have acted as if it was heroic for John Kerry to have enlisted in the Naval Reserve and cowardly for George Bush to have enlisted in the National Guard. But none has bothered to show what essential difference -- if any -- there is between these two back-up branches of service.

[Gator]

Wow, thank you for opening my eyes to this pivotal issue. No, really, thank you.

[Satchel]

I think if he did in fact try to defer, then that is pretty relevant. So far many of these claims have been shot down though. The above referenced doctor isn't even the doctor on record for that injury. He isn't even listed in the records.

[Adam D]

blah blah blah

[bfp]

Originally Posted by Satchel

I think if he did in fact try to defer, then that is pretty relevant. So far many of these claims have been shot down though. The above referenced doctor isn't even the doctor on record for that injury. He isn't even listed in the records.

Yea - you are right. Kerry's claims have been shot down.

[bfp]

Originally Posted by Satchel

The above referenced doctor isn't even the doctor on record for that injury. He isn't even listed in the records.

I guess it depends on which event you're talking about.

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Kerry Purple Heart Doc Speaks Out
The medical description of his first wound.

By Byron York

Some critics of Democratic presidential candidate John Kerry have questioned the circumstances surrounding the first of three Purple Hearts Kerry won in Vietnam. Those critics, among them some of Kerry's fellow veterans, have suggested that a wound suffered by Kerry in December 1968 may have made him technically eligible for a Purple Heart but was not severe enough to warrant serious consideration, even for a decoration that was handed out by the thousands. Whatever the case, Kerry was awarded the Purple Heart, and, along with two others he won later, it allowed him to request to leave Vietnam before his tour of duty was finished.

Kerry was treated for the wound at a medical facility in Cam Ranh Bay. The doctor who treated Kerry, Louis Letson, is today a retired general practitioner in Alabama. Letson says he remembers his brief encounter with Kerry 35 years ago because "some of his crewmen related that Lt. Kerry had told them that he would be the next JFK from Massachusetts." Letson says that last year, as the Democratic campaign began to heat up, he told friends that he remembered treating one of the candidates many years ago. In response to their questions, Letson says, he wrote down his recollections of the time. (Letson says he has had no contacts with anyone from the Bush campaign or the Republican party.) What follows is Letson's memory, as he wrote it.

I have a very clear memory of an incident which occurred while I was the Medical Officer at Naval Support Facility, Cam Ranh Bay.
John Kerry was a (jg), the OinC or skipper of a Swift boat, newly arrived in Vietnam. On the night of December 2, he was on patrol north of Cam Ranh, up near Nha Trang area. The next day he came to sick bay, the medical facility, for treatment of a wound that had occurred that night.

The story he told was different from what his crewmen had to say about that night. According to Kerry, they had been engaged in a fire fight, receiving small arms fire from on shore. He said that his injury resulted from this enemy action.

Some of his crew confided that they did not receive any fire from shore, but that Kerry had fired a mortar round at close range to some rocks on shore. The crewman thought that the injury was caused by a fragment ricocheting from that mortar round when it struck the rocks.

That seemed to fit the injury which I treated.

What I saw was a small piece of metal sticking very superficially in the skin of Kerry's arm. The metal fragment measured about 1 cm. in length and was about 2 or 3 mm in diameter. It certainly did not look like a round from a rifle.

I simply removed the piece of metal by lifting it out of the skin with forceps. I doubt that it penetrated more than 3 or 4 mm. It did not require probing to find it, did not require any anesthesia to remove it, and did not require any sutures to close the wound.

The wound was covered with a bandaid.

Not [sic] other injuries were reported and I do not recall that there was any reported damage to the boat.

[Satchel]

and you take that as 100% truth of course

I wish I had some right wing swampland to sell

[bfp]

Originally Posted by Satchel

and you take that as 100% truth of course

I wish I had some right wing swampland to sell

If Kerry's documentation states there was gunfire, and he was 'shot', doesn't it make sense to back the 'group of individuals' that all claim there was no fire? Doesn't it make sense to take the mans word being that he says he was the doctor that treated him? Even Kerry's journal states there was no fire, but in order to recieve the purple heart, the documentation had to state that there was 'enemy fire', right?

Something is wrong with the picture here.

[Satchel]

So you have read Kerry's journal now?

[bfp]

Originally Posted by Satchel

So you have read Kerry's journal now?

Don't answer a question with a question.

Now, wouldn't it make sense to believe a group of individuals that all claim that Kerry was never under enemy fire in regards to the purple hearts he claims to have achieved?

[Satchel]

I'm sure it makes sense to you, but to me this is all politics. It wouldn't surprise me at all if Kerry did exaggerate his claims, but I'm going to give him the benefit of the doubt against these 30 year later testimonies of people that haven't even been proven witness. It also wouldn't surprise me if GDub was coked up at a kegger when he was supposed to be guarding the Alabama skies, but again I don't jump to conclusions based on flimsy evidence.

Now, have you actually read Kerry's journal?

[Satchel]

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmp...ietnam_records

[question]

Pot, it's Kettle. I don't know if anyone told you or not, but you're black. You're the KING of answering questions with questions.

Originally Posted by bfp

Don't answer a question with a question.