India and Russia strengthen their ties

[johnny861]

Russia Tells India It Is Not Soviet Union

New Delhi, India (UPI) Dec 03, 2004
India and Russia on Friday signed a series of bilateral agreements to rejuvenate their closer ties, but New Delhi misses the warmth of the Soviet Union, its closest ally of the Cold War era.
The bonhomie between New Delhi and Moscow is now conditioned on the stark realties of the changing global situation, where trade and economics prevail.

Gone are the days when New Delhi and Moscow were assured of each other's unstinted support in international arena.

Earlier this week, Russian Defense Minster Sergei Ivnaov warned New Delhi of not sharing sophisticated military technologies until India signed an agreement on the protection of intellectual property rights.

We will not give away such high technology without signing IPR agreement, for free. India is a priority and strategic partner of Russia. It was also a strategic partner of Soviet Union, which used to give many things for free, but things have changed, Ivanov said. Russia is a different country, and there is a need for taking cognizance of this reality.

Ivanov also said Russia wouldn't supply nuclear submarines to India.

On Friday, Russian President Vladimir Putin went further. The Russian leader, on a three-day visit to India, supported New Delhi's claim for a permanent seat in the U.N. Security Council but said that new members of the council should not have veto powers.

India is our strategic privileged partner. Speaking from the point of view of geographical representation, India is No. 1, Putin told reporters after holding talks with Indian Prime Minister Manmohan Singh.

Putin, however, zealously guarded the exclusive veto club.

Speaking about the role of veto, we believe it would be absolutely unacceptable to erode such tools of the U.N., he told a joint press conference with Singh.

Because, otherwise, the U.N. organization will lose its weight and lose its role changing into some discussion club, some new edition of the League of Nations, the Russian president said.

The Indian premier had earlier said: In particular, we are very appreciative for Russia's sustained support for India's permanent membership in the U.N. Security Council.

India, however fully supported Moscow's bid to join the World Trade Organization.

Issues relating to Russia's membership of WTO came up during our meeting, Manmohan Singh told reporters, saying, We will fully support Russia's early entry into WTO.

The two sides signed several agreements for stronger economic ties in energy, banking, information technology, aviation and peaceful uses of outer space and joint development of a satellite navigational system.

India and Russia will pump in more money into the successful joint BrahMos supersonic cruise missile project, hold regular military exercises and actively explore joint production of a fifth-generation combat aircraft.

The two sides also signed a joint declaration, agreeing to finalize the intellectual property rights agreement within next four months.

India pressed Russia to stick to its delivery schedules of contracted weapon systems and an uninterrupted supply of spares and life-term product support.

Although India has been defense shopping in Israel and the United States following the breakup of the Soviet Union, Russia continues to be the backbone of Indian defense supplies.

Nearly three-fourths of Indian military's hardware is of Soviet make, and India is hard pressed for the required spare parts.

But India has definitely something to cheer with Russia categorically denying any future plans to sell arms and ammunition to Pakistan.

Pakistan's Daily Times quoted Russian officials as saying that, keeping in view New Delhi's traditional ties with Moscow, Russia honored Indian sentiments and won't sell arms to Pakistan.

Putin, on his third visit since 2000, is accompanied by a 50-member business delegation, mainly from the energy and IT sectors. He also is scheduled to visit India's IT hub city of Bangalore.

Meanwhile, the silverware used by Putin during his ongoing visit to India is being disinfected with copious amount of vodka.

Russian security sleuths used the liquor, said to be a great disinfectant, to wash the knives and forks to be used by Putin and his wife, Lyudmila, Indo Asian News Service reported, quoting an employee of the Maurya Sheraton Hotel in New Delhi where the Russian leader is staying.

[c double]

did anyone actually read that article?


but of course those asian countries will form ties else they will get left in the dust

plus india's closer to using nukes right now than anyone probably

Originally Posted by c double

did anyone actually read that article?


but of course those asian countries will form ties else they will get left in the dust

plus india's closer to using nukes right now than anyone probably

Presuming foreign policy is an extension of self-preservation we usually see oneof two methods of acheiving that goal.

Bandwagoning.... generally an asian model, coutries cling to a powerful core to avoid being swallowed by aggressive and less desireable alternatives.

Counterbalancing... the policy England pursued for hundreds of years in Europe. Standing as a counter weight against the hegemony of another power. England always sided with the second most powerful nation of Europe... usually against France but later against Germany.

Finlandization... tell both sides what they want to hear. Say yes to every demand. Then go do whatever you want.

Neutral... make clocks, have ski resorts and terribly expensive bording schools.


India appears to be bandwagoning in part.... although. Sometimes when this happens the horse becomes the rider and the rider the horse. See the Austro-Hungarian example of reversal of role with their treaty with Germany that dragged Germany into WWI. Germany had hoped to be the rider but the deteriorating power of the Hapsburgs and growng power of the relatively new German state....blah blah blah

[pooh]

Originally Posted by c double

plus india's closer to using nukes right now than anyone
probably

korea much?

[USAcommitteeX]

Last year in a mock dog fight over India our F-15's didn't do so well against India's migs ukhoi and Mirag air craft, we are losing our air superiority, but still to this day no country in the world has been able to blow the F-15 out of the sky..on the other hand you can't say the same thing about the mig 29 we trashed quite a few of those.

[johnny861]

Originally Posted by USAcommitteeX

Last year in a mock dog fight over India our F-15's didn't do so well against India's migs ukhoi and Mirag air craft, we are losing our air superiority, but still to this day no country in the world has been able to blow the F-15 out of the sky..on the other hand you can't say the same thing about the mig 29 we trashed quite a few of those.

The MiG-29k ought to be an interesting aircraft... it has thrust-vectoring control... but they do say there can be a disadvantage to that, leaving it vulnerable at the point of vectoring...

[tekloid]

Originally Posted by USAcommitteeX

Last year in a mock dog fight over India our F-15's didn't do so well against India's migs ukhoi and Mirag air craft, we are losing our air superiority, but still to this day no country in the world has been able to blow the F-15 out of the sky..on the other hand you can't say the same thing about the mig 29 we trashed quite a few of those.

those "mock fights" are there to train our allies. if you dig up enough links you will see we lose those ALL THE TIME. I mean, australia owned our subs in a mock training battle not too long ago! does that make sense? no.. we're hardly losing any superioty(especially in the air department). it's called masking our true capabilities and keeping secrets out of view(even from out allies). Even if these test were completey even and we were getting virtually fragged, I wouldn't be that worried anyway, we always have the stuff that's 10+ years ahead of its time we can pull out that has been stashed away for the same reason(why show them what you've got when they are still developing for our 20 year old technology?) just sayin... ez

[johnny861]

Originally Posted by tekloid

I wouldn't be that worried anyway, we always have the stuff that's 10+ years ahead of its time we can pull out that has been stashed away for the same reason(why show them what you've got when they are still developing for our 20 year old technology?) just sayin... ez

It's possible, but it's hard to determine what is and is not a bluff... At the fall of Berlin, Germans loyal to the Reich, held on to the belief that Germany was going to unleash its cache of super secret weapons at any moment and drive the allies back across Europe. This idea, among other ideas, stuck with partisan fighters, like the Werewolves, who continued to attack allied positions, offices and supply lines well into 1950...

Originally Posted by johnny861

It's possible, but it's hard to determine what is and is not a bluff... At the fall of Berlin, Germans loyal to the Reich, held on to the belief that Germany was going to unleash its cache of super secret weapons at any moment and drive the allies back across Europe. This idea, among other ideas, stuck with partisan fighters, like the Werewolves, who continued to attack allied positions, offices and supply lines well into 1950...

ok..... but our country and infrastructure hasn't suffered from a 5 years of total war.

Our hardware is of the highest order.... whether that is a benefit ro not may be debateable though.... high tech gear breaks down easier than low tech.

[tekloid]

Originally Posted by johnny861

It's possible, but it's hard to determine what is and is not a bluff... At the fall of Berlin, Germans loyal to the Reich, held on to the belief that Germany was going to unleash its cache of super secret weapons at any moment and drive the allies back across Europe. This idea, among other ideas, stuck with partisan fighters, like the Werewolves, who continued to attack allied positions, offices and supply lines well into 1950...

true true. i'm sure there is plenty of bluffing. but then again; stealth bomber, stealth raptor, etc-etc... we've delivered in the past. still waiting for them to acknowledge all these triangular ufo's everyone sees..stealth WMD chemtrail sprayers. :foil hat:

[USAcommitteeX]

Originally Posted by johnny861

The MiG-29k ought to be an interesting aircraft... it has thrust-vectoring control... but they do say there can be a disadvantage to that, leaving it vulnerable at the point of vectoring...

Close engagements MiG 29 would have a slight advantage over the F-15 because of it's maneuverability,the F-22 goes into service next year, I would like to see it against the MiG-29 or the Su-37 which basically looks the same as the MiG. Iran still has quite a few F-14's in service but their having problems keeping them air worthy because of the embargo and weapons ban.