Interesting Poll Question

[Ryan]

So CNN has a poll right now that asks "Would you be willing to sacrifice your own life to create a democracy in Iraq?" and the response thus far is 91% "no." The poll question itself is not really all that interesting, but I think it brings up an interesting question. For those of you who support this war, would you be willing to die for the cause? Further, do you think it's necessary to say that you would make that sacrifice if you are a war supporter? Is it OK to ask other men to die for a cause you would not die for?

I am not baiting here, I am asking this question philosophically.

I'd be willing to risk being killed fighting an enemy for that cause - yes.

I watched my brother go over and 2 cousins... I would not ask of them what I would not do.

[tricky]

I definitly think anyone who strongly supports this war should have all their sons/daughters/brothers/sisiters...family members....shit anyone they can convince, to join the ranks and help promote democracy for all.

Xian, you up for joining? By God's Will, we've got democracy to spread.

[Ryan]

Originally Posted by xiannaix

I'd be willing to risk being killed fighting an enemy for that cause - yes.

I watched my brother go over and 2 cousins... I would not ask of them what I would not do.

But is it hypocritical not to feel the way you do about it? I believe you feel that strongly is you say you do, but I honestly believe that a huge majority of war supporters would not take a bullet in this war.

Originally Posted by Ryan

But is it hypocritical not to feel this way? I believe you feel that strongly is you say you do, but I honestly believe that a huge majority of war supporters would not take a bullet in this war.

I hear where you're coming from.

But, I don't believe that one must be willing to grab a rifle in order to be qualified to support the war. So, no I don't think it is hipocritical. I don't think supporters have a casual regard for the lives of our soldiers. I think it pains them deeply. Like the infantry officer... I cannot imagine to burden he must bear knowing his job is to order his men to action that will result in many of their deaths.... supports of the war have a watered down sense of this burden... but not slight regard...

I've repeatedly said that I thought the prize was worth the fight. I've never argued that it was a struggle for existence. But, it may prevent one....(yes, it may risk starting one too -- I'm more comfortable with the former than the latter) Our soldiers train with guns for a reason - they understand the risks of service. That's not a "fuck 'em they signed up." No one is gleeful to see our brave men and women get hurt or dead. Somethings are worth fighting for. That I agree doesn't require me to join combat operations....

[Gammah]

Quagmire........

[Ryan]

Originally Posted by xiannaix

I hear where you're coming from.

But, I don't believe that one must be willing to grab a rifle in order to be qualified to support the war. So, no I don't think it is hipocritical. I don't think supporters have a casual regard for the lives of our soldiers. I think it pains them deeply. Like the infantry officer... I cannot imagine to burden he must bear knowing his job is to order his men to action that will result in many of their deaths.... supports of the war have a watered down sense of this burden... but not slight regard...

I've repeatedly said that I thought the prize was worth the fight. I've never argued that it was a struggle for existence. But, it may prevent one....(yes, it may risk starting one too -- I'm more comfortable with the former than the latter) Our soldiers train with guns for a reason - they understand the risks of service. That's not a "fuck 'em they signed up." No one is gleeful to see our brave men and women get hurt or dead. Somethings are worth fighting for. That I agree doesn't require me to join combat operations....

I don't think that most of them ponder it that deeply. I have seen more than a few of them, my family included, change their tone when they faced the possibility of losing someone they loved head on. I think that if so many people felt so strongly about it, they wouldn't be in a position of forcing tens of thousand of soldiers to return on long tours after they were supposed to be discharged. There would be plenty of people lining up to take up the cause.

Originally Posted by Gammah

Quagmire........

yeah - there are problems....

I think we could really acheive something good though if we keep our resolve up...

[Element4040]

Also bear in mind Ryan that many Bush Supporters do actually see Iraq as part of the "War on Terror". They don't view it like alot of us do as a seperate incident. They think they are preventing another 9/11, whereas we see it as helping to create another 9/11.

I speak to people on a daily basis on another board that are very much in support of the War and they have sons and daughter's over there. Of course, many of them remind me weekly of 9/11, even though 'None' of them can show me proof that Saddam had anything to do with it. This, even after I show them quotes from Cheney saying Saddam had nothing to do with 9/11.

There are the confused and the idealists that support the war. I'd put Xian in the Idealist category as he fully understands the Neo-Con agenda and feels it will work. It's an ideological theory, but there is a big difference between those who understand the big picture and those who are blinded by Patriotism.

Believe me as someone who argues with the confused Daily, I'd much rather argue with the Idealogue any day.

Originally Posted by Ryan

I don't think that most of them ponder it that deeply. I have seen more than a few of them, my family included, change their tone when they faced the possibility of losing someone they loved head on. I think that if so many people felt so strongly about it, they wouldn't be in a position of forcing tens of thousand of soldiers to return on long tours after they were supposed to be discharged. There would be plenty of people lining up to take up the cause.

I think you bring up a different point though.... and I cannot agree more that our preparation for a long occupation was poor. It is unfair, unwise and just plain infuriating at times that we must prolong tours. Better planning could have avoided that.

Originally Posted by Element4040

Also bear in mind Ryan that many Bush Supporters do actually see Iraq as part of the "War on Terror". They don't view it like alot of us do as a seperate incident. They think they are preventing another 9/11, whereas we see it as helping to create another 9/11.

Its more remote than that. Stability in the region will help prevent future terrorism.... a common complaint, "The US supports dictators of the rgion that oppress their people" well - here's an example of trying to do the exact opposite... topple a brutal dictator and give the people a real voice.... I find that goal admirable.

Originally Posted by Element4040

I speak to people on a daily basis on another board that are very much in support of the War and they have sons and daughter's over there. Of course, many of them remind me weekly of 9/11, even though 'None' of them can show me proof that Saddam had anything to do with it. This, even after I show them quotes from Cheney saying Saddam had nothing to do with 9/11.

There are the confused and the idealists that support the war. I'd put Xian in the Idealist category as he fully understands the Neo-Con agenda and feels it will work. It's an ideological theory, but there is a big difference between those who understand the big picture and those who are blinded by Patriotism.

Believe me as someone who argues with the confused Daily, I'd much rather argue with the Idealogue any day.

lol - I'm a pragmatist who wishes he could be an idealist.

[Satchel]

The question is would you be willing to DIE for that cause, not risk being killed.

and I think that the 9% are full of shit.

Xian, you would be willing to die for democracy in Iraq?

[J. Fees]

Saddam was more stable for the region than blowing the living shit out of a country's infrastructure, and killing civilians. If we were just trying to liberate citizens from a ruthless dictator, then we could start all kinds of wars. Iran, Syria, Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, and North Korea, they are the ones with some explaining to do. And most all of them actually have WMD

[dfwtrader]

ditto.....14 friends and family member have served or are currently serving......i would follow their lead

Originally Posted by xiannaix

I'd be willing to risk being killed fighting an enemy for that cause - yes.

I watched my brother go over and 2 cousins... I would not ask of them what I would not do.

[Satchel]

then do follow their lead