The Drug War Clock

[willy_jack]

http://www.drugsense.org/wodclock.htm

[transparentaura]

Yep, our drug policy is a tragic, expensive joke. One problem is that waging it has long been a very profitable industry for a lot of very powerful corporations who have a vested interest in keeping it going. Then too, you have a whole segment of the law enforcement community whose careers and positions would cease to exist, or at the least be greatly diminished by a cease fire in this war on our fellow citizens, and their desperation to defend their fiefdoms shows. Really, does anybody believe the grossly exaggerated claims of the danger of marijauna that some of these crusaders spout? I doubt they even do, and it weakens their credibility. We've reached a point in the evolution of our country where few adults, not even our latest Presidents can honestly profess to never having smoked it.Smoking weed as a young man is not even a deal breaker for a presidential nomination for christs sake, nor should it be.However, if you are unfortunate enough to be prosecuted for it, not only will you never be president, you will have a lot of doors closed to you, not the least of which is possibly a cell door. Where is the justice in that? How many people can honestly say they support our marijauna laws without being a total fucking hypocrite. My favorite argument used by the neo-temperence types is when they point to a promising young scholar, athlete, astronaut, synchronised swimmer or whatever who was on their way to fame and fortune until they were busted for pot and were thrown in jail, disgraced,ruined forever and barred from pursuing their dream. This, they say is evidence that drugs will ruin your life, when the flaw in that argument is obvious to all but the most gullible DARE program alumnus. Meanwhile,just like with the Volstead act, organized crime, big business and law enforcement all profit from marijauna prohibition,almost nobody considers pot a real crime,everybody breaks the law and only the powerless are punished. Just like Prohibition. This is hardly an original argument. But it is just so fucking obvious.

Originally Posted by stargazer

anyone who sits there and says that these illegal drugs are good for you are obviously delusional... there really is no positive healthy use for the majority of them, if not all of them... but the war on drugs isn't going to ever stop it

couldn't have said it better myself, 'JUST SAY NO"

[transparentaura]

Originally Posted by stargazer

anyone who sits there and says that these illegal drugs are good for you are obviously delusional... there really is no positive healthy use for the majority of them, if not all of them... but the war on drugs isn't going to ever stop it

I don't think the point is whether or not they are good for you. There are thousands of legal things that aren't good for you. But do you really want the govt. deciding for you what is and isn't "good for you" ? What is bad for you may be just fine for someone else. In my opinion marijauna is a pretty benign recreational substance (I am hesitant to even call it a drug) and it certainly has fewer health risks than alchohol. But thats not even the point. I'm sure you and everybody else ingests one thing or another that really isn't healthy, be it a rare 1/2 lb cheeseburger, a can of mountain dew, or maybe a cigarette. It is inconcievable to me that anyone could advocate incarcerating someone for what they choose to put in their own body, as long as they are harming no one but themselves.

[willy_jack]

if you really think prison should be full of potheads you are loonified

Originally Posted by stargazer

that makes no sense. the government didn't decide that drugs were bad for you... it is just the reality of the situation that drugs are bad... no one needs to tell me that for me to know that is the case.

but the origin of drug prohibition was economic and racial.... not related to health

it started in San Francisco with an attempt to take the opium trade from the Chinese.... it was unsightly you see for a white woman to be found in an opinum den amongst them nasty celestials.

[Satchel]

To me, deciding how you want to live(assuming you are causing no one else harm) is one of the basic blocks of freedom. I'm not into conspiracy theory but I think it is shameful that this country pushes fast food down our throats but will not allow us to smoke a joint.

[GLopez]

Now everyone wants to be the "drug dealer".

Originally Posted by stargazer

and i understand the argument that we should be allowed to put into our bodies whatever we want... but the fact of the matter is that drugs aren't just about you, they are about everyone around you... you can't simply do illegal drugs and have it just effect you... that is what i think the difference is

Not sure I follow... how does Jimmy Buffet smoking a joint, or Yoko Ono shooting smack, or Bob Weir dropping a tab effect you?

[willy_jack]

Originally Posted by xiannaix

Not sure I follow... how does Jimmy Buffet smoking a joint, or Yoko Ono shooting smack, or Bob Weir dropping a tab effect you?

totally agree with you

Originally Posted by stargazer

well, i wasn't specifically thinking about me in those kinds of cases... but in fact it does effect me in the way that if i am a big fan of Jimmy Buffet and I hear about him smoking pot or i'm a big fan of Yoko Ono and I decide I want to shoot some smack.... and then I overdose or somehow injure myself permanently, don't think they had an effect on someone other than themselves?

but i was speaking more of they have an effect on people more closely to them...

all i'm saying is that drugs are not healthy, there is absolutely no healthy benefits for the majority of illegal drugs... cannabis has some i know, but none of the other drugs have any health benefit that i'm aware of...

if you are going to find fault with the government for regulating this or waging a war against this... why not find fault with the thousands of other things that the government does that infringes upon our individual freedom to do whatever we want?

i'm sorry, but real freedom.. the freedom to do just whatever we want is not feasible and it isn't what anyone really wants... if it was then we would have no need for a government... the only reason people want freedom to do whatever drugs we want is because of addiction

I'm still not clear how person A doing drugs impacts person B sufficiently to warrant governmental intervention.

I agree - they're bad - destructive etc - no disagreement there.

I'm just saying that our concept of liberty permits us to fuck our lives up as much as we want, provided we don't harm others.

[Satchel]

Originally Posted by stargazer

well, i wasn't specifically thinking about me in those kinds of cases... but in fact it does effect me in the way that if i am a big fan of Jimmy Buffet and I hear about him smoking pot or i'm a big fan of Yoko Ono and I decide I want to shoot some smack.... and then I overdose or somehow injure myself permanently, don't think they had an effect on someone other than themselves?

but i was speaking more of they have an effect on people more closely to them...

all i'm saying is that drugs are not healthy, there is absolutely no healthy benefits for the majority of illegal drugs... cannabis has some i know, but none of the other drugs have any health benefit that i'm aware of...

if you are going to find fault with the government for regulating this or waging a war against this... why not find fault with the thousands of other things that the government does that infringes upon our individual freedom to do whatever we want?

i'm sorry, but real freedom.. the freedom to do just whatever we want is not feasible and it isn't what anyone really wants... if it was then we would have no need for a government... the only reason people want freedom to do whatever drugs we want is because of addiction

another ridiculous assertion. I stopped doing drugs years ago and I was never addicted to anything. Except maybe Coca Cola

[Satchel]

oh and there is a huge difference in between doing whatever we want, and doing what we want that doesn't harm others. A HUGE DIFFERENCE.

[Satchel]

Originally Posted by stargazer

doing drugs has the potential to harm others

1. you do drugs and cause a crash out on the road
2. you do drugs, die, and then your family has to mourn
3. you do drugs, go crazy and kill people

etc etc

you doing drugs does have the potential to effect other people and obviously it HAS effected someone else in the past or else we wouldnt have these issues

You actually think it is the governments business to stop me from making my family mourn????

Originally Posted by stargazer

so why don't you have issues against other government interaction?

such as?

Originally Posted by stargazer

i've said my feelings on the issue... to be perfectly honest with you i have a hard time listening to any pro-drug people who take the stance that the government shouldn't be regulating them because in most of those cases i imagine that the person having this stance have drug dependence problems... if i could hear some solid legal reasoning from someone who didn't do any drugs then i might listen... but so far i havent seen this

I don't get high.

I'm arguing that the basis, health, is insufficient to prohibit drugs because it is clearly inconsistent with other legal (and even subsidized) and more destructive drugs... alcohol and tobacco.

I'm saying that liberty allows us freedom of choice and as long as our exercise of liberty does not conflict without consent that of another, the government has ZERO right to intervene.

So, by what right does the government prohibit freedom of choice?