Feeding Tube CAN Be Removed

[bfp]

I'm just not for this. Since she can make noises, she should be asked to make a noise if she wants to live. It's that simple.

Having another person demanding that it be removed, is not the sensible thing to do.

If she were in a coma, that's another thing, but she wakes up, smiles, makes noises, laughs, etc.

[Satchel]

I think that solution must be too simple, or it would have been done. I'm not buying that they would allow the tube to be removed without her consent if she had the ability to do so, but I will claim ignorance here on the facts.

[Ash]

common sense prevails

Originally Posted by Ash

common sense prevails

what's that?

she can't tell us she doesn't want to be killed so we'll take her husband's word for it and kill her?

[Ash]

she also can't say

"WHAT THE FUCK YOU ASSHOLES!! THIS IS HELL PLEASE KILL ME I CANT EVEN SHIT FOR MYSELF! PLEASE LET ME DIE"

it's just my opinion, but nobody deserves to live like that.

Originally Posted by Ash

she also can't say

"WHAT THE FUCK YOU ASSHOLES!! THIS IS HELL PLEASE KILL ME I CANT EVEN SHIT FOR MYSELF! PLEASE LET ME DIE"

it's just my opinion, but nobody deserves to live like that.

what I'm arguing is that its better to let her live in error than to kill her in error

[Ash]

you have a point, but "error" is too subjective in this context.

Originally Posted by Ash

you have a point, but "error" is too subjective in this context.

hmm - what word would you suggest?

I'm saying that absent a clear directive either decision leaves room for the possibility that the decision is wrong, in error. Only one potential wrong decision/error is irreversible.

[Ash]

you're too smart to argue with, where's willy jack?

Originally Posted by Ash

you're too smart to argue with, where's willy jack?

not trying to argue or tell you you're wrong... I'm just explaining what I think the decision making process shuold look like and what outcome I think it should produce....

[thefncrow]

The woman cannot eat, cannot think, cannot speak meaningfully, cannot walk. She is in a Persistent Vegitative State. Her cerebral cortex is gone forever. She had expressed this desire to not continue as such to several people, and a court of law decided that, based on the available evidence, it was proper to conclude that Terri Schiavo would not want this. The parents have no evidence to the contrary aside from what they think, and even admitted, in open court, no less, that they really do not care what her wishes are, because they claimed that they would not remove the tube even if Terri wanted it removed.

It is the correct action.

Originally Posted by thefncrow

She had expressed this desire to not continue as such to several people, and a court of law decided that, based on the available evidence, it was proper to conclude that Terri Schiavo would not want this. The parents have no evidence to the contrary aside from what they think, and even admitted, in open court, no less, that they really do not care what her wishes are, because they claimed that they would not remove the tube even if Terri wanted it removed.

It is the correct action.

I thought the only evidence was an uncorroborated claim of the husband? WHo else has testified affirmatively that Terri said she'd want to be killed if in these circumstances?

I think the standard in Florida is lower than the one I advocated. Presuming that is true then, yes, they made the correct legal decision.

I'm not as confident that it is morally correct though.

[tricky]

between this and major league baseball, i'm glad congress is focusing on the really important things

[thefncrow]

Originally Posted by xiannaix

I thought the only evidence was an uncorroborated claim of the husband? WHo else has testified affirmatively that Terri said she'd want to be killed if in these circumstances?

I think the standard in Florida is lower than the one I advocated. Presuming that is true then, yes, they made the correct legal decision.

I'm not as confident that it is morally correct though.

Fom the judge in the first hearing, the order that originally ordered the tube removed, he states that 5 witnesses took the stand who spoke of Terri talking to them about their wishes.

1 is her mother, and a reported claim that she had said "Why don't they just leave her alone" in the case of a woman being kept alive on life-support. This was when Terri was roughly 11 or 12 years old. The testimony is rather shaky, as you'll see if you read the judge's order here:
http://abstractappeal.com/schiavo/trialctorder02-00.pdf

There's also Michael Schiavo, who claims that she made this wish clear on multiple occasions, stemming from an incident when Terri's grandmother was in intensive-care, and another from watching something on television regarding people on life support.

Scott Schiavo claims that, at a funeral luncheon for Terri's grandmother, she said "if I ever go like that just let me go. Don't leave me there, I don't want to be kept alive on a machine."

Joan Schiavo claims that, after watching a television movie about a man going into a coma, Terri said that she wanted it stated in her will that she would want the tubes and everything removed.

I can't seem to locate the 5th person who discussed this from the order, however.

Originally Posted by thefncrow

Fom the judge in the first hearing, the order that originally ordered the tube removed, he states that 5 witnesses took the stand who spoke of Terri talking to them about their wishes.

1 is her mother, and a reported claim that she had said "Why don't they just leave her alone" in the case of a woman being kept alive on life-support. This was when Terri was roughly 11 or 12 years old. The testimony is rather shaky, as you'll see if you read the judge's order here:
http://abstractappeal.com/schiavo/trialctorder02-00.pdf

There's also Michael Schiavo, who claims that she made this wish clear on multiple occasions, stemming from an incident when Terri's grandmother was in intensive-care, and another from watching something on television regarding people on life support.

Scott Schiavo claims that, at a funeral luncheon for Terri's grandmother, she said "if I ever go like that just let me go. Don't leave me there, I don't want to be kept alive on a machine."

Joan Schiavo claims that, after watching a television movie about a man going into a coma, Terri said that she wanted it stated in her will that she would want the tubes and everything removed.

I can't seem to locate the 5th person who discussed this from the order, however.

That's interesting stuff though and thanks for the correction - lends a great deal more weight to the notion that the burden of proof was met.