Live8 & extreme poverty in Africa

i know 0% about the G8 conference except for who is going...

what do you think the chances are that they will give the money that Bob is asking from them in regards to Africa? he said it would take 70 cents for every hundred dollars.... i know that i would have no issue putting up that kind of money from my own pocket... but do you think it is plausible for a country do that?

[Adam D]

I think it's unlikely anything more than a token gesture will come out of the G8 for Africa.

A lot of this has to do with the British domestic campaign to deal with African poverty. Although there are a lot of NGOs behind the Blair on it, I suspect the Blair government is a lot more concerned with strengthening its ties to Africa, politically and economically, and weakening ties between France, Germany, Belgium and Africa than it has anything to do with genuine concern about poverty.

Originally Posted by Adam D

I suspect the Blair government is a lot more concerned with strengthening its ties to Africa, politically and economically, and weakening ties between France, Germany, Belgium and Africa than it has anything to do with genuine concern about poverty.

why do you say that? what kind of connection does France/Germany/Belgium have with Africa right now?

[Adam D]

Originally Posted by stargazer

why do you say that? what kind of connection does France/Germany/Belgium have with Africa right now?

Because I think Blair is full of shit.

Those countries are the former colonial powers (along with Britian) that controlled most of Africa, and even though they no longer maintain explicit control over those countries there are still very strong political ties between the former imperial powers and their respective former colonies. The former powers cover up some of the more unsavory actions of their former colonies in return for political support and favorable trade deals (e.g. during the Rwandan genocide, France was very vocal about denying what was happening).

favorable trade deals? what does Africa have for trade? pardon my ignorance on the subject...

they are saying that over half of Africa lives in extreme poverty.. that is alot of people... is there any kind of industrialization over there? do they have anything going on over there at all?

[Adam D]

Originally Posted by stargazer

favorable trade deals? what does Africa have for trade? pardon my ignorance on the subject...

they are saying that over half of Africa lives in extreme poverty.. that is alot of people... is there any kind of industrialization over there? do they have anything going on over there at all?

Diamonds, gold, oil...all kinds of natural resources. There's a particular metal that is necessary for cell phones to operate, and it's only found in a few, rare places in Africa.

all this dumb political nonsense around the world should stop... we should be supporting one another and not trading bullshit political favors (like lying about genocide) in exchange for fucking cell phone metal... cell phones don't mean shit if all the people in Africa die

grrrrr.... makes me upset to read about this stuff

heartbreaking.

[PETA]

Originally Posted by stargazer

i know 0% about the G8 conference except for who is going...

what do you think the chances are that they will give the money that Bob is asking from them in regards to Africa? he said it would take 70 cents for every hundred dollars.... i know that i would have no issue putting up that kind of money from my own pocket... but do you think it is plausible for a country do that?

Bob didn't ask for money as I understood it

GW pledged to double our current $ amount


Money going to those despots will make the oppressors richer and help those in need ZERO

reform.... import restriction policies and tariffs that's where the starting point should be

My understanding was that Bob was asking money from the leaders at the G8 Conference... that he wanted them all to pledge to put 70 cents for every hundred dollars towards helping eliminate extreme poverty.

and if you don't think that is the right thing to do Xian, what do you think the chances are that they will do anything to fix the problem. I heard that it was possible to eliminate extreme poverty in Africa and other places around the world within a generation... what do you think the chances are that they will do that?

[Adam D]

Originally Posted by xian

Money going to those despots will make the oppressors richer and help those in need ZERO

I would agree with you here, except not every African government is despotic. Most are...but not all. With the despotic ones...it's pretty much a waste of time giving monetary aid.

reform.... import restriction policies and tariffs that's where the starting point should be

I don't see how making it harder for Africa to export what few products it provides, aside from the natural resources, would help make people any less poor...especially since they already suffer from some unnecessary tariffs and import restrictions.


Unfortunately the poverty and violence in Africa will not go away easily. There's too many historical factors at play that have caused conflicts and created oppressive elites. As much as I don't like the idea of even saying it, it's a problem that's going to have to run its course until the people themselves decide they have had enough. That's not to say I think nothing should be done in the interim, but handing out money based on political favors and economic value to those who perpetuate the problem isn't much of an answer. I think a much better solution would be to use the money to distribute actual goods directly to the people (e.g. farming equipment, medical technology/medicine, textbooks, food, building materials, etc.).

[PETA]

Originally Posted by Adam D

I would agree with you here, except not every African government is despotic. Most are...but not all. With the despotic ones...it's pretty much a waste of time giving monetary aid.




I don't see how making it harder for Africa to export what few products it provides, aside from the natural resources, would help make people any less poor...especially since they already suffer from some unnecessary tariffs and import restrictions.


Unfortunately the poverty and violence in Africa will not go away easily. There's too many historical factors at play that have caused conflicts and created oppressive elites. As much as I don't like the idea of even saying it, it's a problem that's going to have to run its course until the people themselves decide they have had enough. That's not to say I think nothing should be done in the interim, but handing out money based on political favors and economic value to those who perpetuate the problem isn't much of an answer. I think a much better solution would be to use the money to distribute actual goods directly to the people (e.g. farming equipment, medical technology/medicine, textbooks, food, building materials, etc.).

my point was that it'd be helpful to make it easier to import to Africa and export from Africa - help give them tools to build from within rather than just dump $ or tell them how we were going to fix everything for them

its no small problem to be sure

[Edwin Watson]

it did nothing. at all.

wait, it did entertain a few million people and make some friggin rich ass mother fuckers feel a whole lot better without having to actually part with their money.

[Funkenstein]

Originally Posted by Adam D

Unfortunately the poverty and violence in Africa will not go away easily. There's too many historical factors at play that have caused conflicts and created oppressive elites. As much as I don't like the idea of even saying it, it's a problem that's going to have to run its course until the people themselves decide they have had enough. That's not to say I think nothing should be done in the interim, but handing out money based on political favors and economic value to those who perpetuate the problem isn't much of an answer. I think a much better solution would be to use the money to distribute actual goods directly to the people (e.g. farming equipment, medical technology/medicine, textbooks, food, building materials, etc.).

Take this and apply it to the whole of the Middle East and we have a winner. All those in question of what I am hinting at need look no further than the bolded statement.

I don't mean people roused into action by outside forces, I mean people who really want a revolution.

If we took all the money for the arms and training we have done and applied it to material goods for the general populus of the countries in question, you'd see a hell of a different world.

Guns and butter do not mix (well, that is).

i also agree Rufus... if the people actually want change and they have a leader willing to lead them to change then there would be no need for this.... especially in regards to the war in Iraq, if the Iraqis wanted change (which i believe they did) and they had a leader willing to lead them in this (which they didn't) then the U.S. would've had no need to go over there with guns blazing

so you can't just want to have a revolution.. you need a good leader or two to lead you to achieving this... and that is what this world lacks, real leaders...