Nobel Peace prize nomanee and Crips gane founder sentanced to death

[ChunkyAcidReflux]

http://www.cnn.com/2005/LAW/10/25/wi....ap/index.html

Judge signs death warrant for Crips gang co-founder


Tuesday, October 25, 2005; Posted: 7:10 a.m. EDT (11:10 GMT)

LOS ANGELES, California (AP) -- A judge signed a death warrant Monday for Stanley "Tookie" Williams, a co-founder of the notorious Crips gang who was nominated for the Nobel Peace Prize for his children's books.
Williams is scheduled to die December 13 at San Quentin prison. The judge rejected requests by his attorneys to delay the execution until December 22 to give them more time to seek clemency from Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger.
The December 13 date means attorneys have only until November 8 to submit a clemency request. The U.S. Supreme Court declined to consider Williams' case earlier this month.
"This case has taken over 24 years to get to this point," Superior Court Judge William R. Pounders said. "That is a long delay in itself, and I would hate to add to that delay."
Williams, 51, and a high school friend started the Crips street gang in Los Angeles in 1971.
Williams was sentenced to death in 1981 for fatally shooting Albert Owens, a convenience store worker, in 1979. He also was convicted of killing two motel owners and their daughter during a robbery that same year.
Williams maintains he is innocent, and supporters cite his renunciation of his past and his efforts to curtail gang violence, including a series of children's books he co-wrote in prison.
Supporters have nominated him for the Nobel Peace Prize and the Nobel in literature, and a cable TV movie of his life last year starred Oscar-winner Jamie Foxx.
Dozens of death penalty opponents demonstrated outside the courtroom. Among them was actor Mike Farrell, who said the proceedings failed to consider "his value, his change, his transformation."
Lora Owens, Albert Owens' stepmother, said Williams does not deserve clemency.
"I didn't convict the man and I didn't put a death sentence on him, but I want justice for Albert to be done," she said in a recent telephone interview. "I will not let it go."

[Edwin Watson]

yeah, they are gonna ask the governator for a reduction to life w/o parole....


i think that they should give it to him....

[PETA]

Originally Posted by Edwin Watson

yeah, they are gonna ask the governator for a reduction to life w/o parole....


i think that they should give it to him....

He's killed at least four people and is a founder of one of the more violent and destructive criminal enterprises in California.

Reduce to LWOP? why?

[ChunkyAcidReflux]

Originally Posted by xian

He's killed at least four people and is a founder of one of the more violent and destructive criminal enterprises in California.

Reduce to LWOP? why?

because he wrote a kids book sheesh.

[Edwin Watson]

Originally Posted by xian

He's killed at least four people and is a founder of one of the more violent and destructive criminal enterprises in California.

Reduce to LWOP? why?

he has spent the rest of his life campaigning agaist that life, is one of the major reasons for the blood/cripp truce, and has written numerous childrens books with more than positive messages that have been celebrated in countries throughout the world. In addition, this is someone the inner city kids listen to and respect. He is one of the few that can really really reach them....

why kill him, when all he has done and will continue to do is good?

[PETA]

Originally Posted by Edwin Watson

he has spent the rest of his life campaigning agaist that life, is one of the major reasons for the blood/cripp truce, and has written numerous childrens books with more than positive messages that have been celebrated in countries throughout the world. In addition, this is someone the inner city kids listen to and respect. He is one of the few that can really really reach them....

why kill him, when all he has done and will continue to do is good?

Fair argument.

ever see Angels with Dirty Faces? (It has a similar theme - the James Cagney character is sentenced to death and his best fried the Priest asks that he not die stone faced but die disgracefully to be a lesson to the children (from the same orphanage where Cagney and the Priest grew up) that crime leads to a dismal end)

Still, this guy killed a minimum of four people and his organization probably thousands and thousands - he is, in a minor way, not unlike any other politico who rose up through gathering mob support. Some people who did this even got to high office..... the analogy is fair if incomplete and on a smaller scale.

Anyway - I think the analysis is exactly as we've laid out... his life post vs his life pre. Glad its not my decision.

Edwin is 100% correct and this whole situation if it is reported correctly will be HUGE to the cause I support which is an end to the death penalty as a punishment

xian knows what i'm talking about too.... this is a rehabilitated man... and not just some man that lied about being rehabilitated....

[PETA]

Originally Posted by sgx

xian knows what i'm talking about too.... this is a rehabilitated man... and not just some man that lied about being rehabilitated....

Assuming you're right (and I have no reason to think you're wrong) that's a significant the debate isn't it.

Does rehabilitation count and what level of rehabilitation will warrant commutation of the DP.

If rehabilitation counts and this guy hasn't done enough the bar will have been set very high.

Originally Posted by xian

Assuming you're right (and I have no reason to think you're wrong) that's a significant the debate isn't it.

oh it is...

and in the case of this man i'd want to know what were the catalysts that pushed this rehabilitation along... was it something he did mainly on his own or was he helped along by a program instituted by the system?

it's like condemning alcoholics to death without providing them a possibility of going to AA

that's how i see it at least

[Edwin Watson]

Originally Posted by sgx

oh it is...

and in the case of this man i'd want to know what were the catalysts that pushed this rehabilitation along... was it something he did mainly on his own or was he helped along by a program instituted by the system?

it's like condemning alcoholics to death without providing them a possibility of going to AA

that's how i see it at least

definitely not done on his own. a reporter was doing interviews with him, trying to find the root causes of gangs, created a personal relationship and together they got to the point where they decided to write books....

prision system did not help that process along in the least.

that's what i'm talking about.... that is an example of both of my points that i made several months back in my conversation with xian

1. we need to converse with each other in order to grow together
2. the prison system needs major revamping in order to fix the overcrowding problem... we don't need more jails, we need new ways to help people avoid jails

[Edwin Watson]

Originally Posted by sgx

that's what i'm talking about.... that is an example of both of my points that i made several months back in my conversation with xian

1. we need to converse with each other in order to grow together
2. the prison system needs major revamping in order to fix the overcrowding problem... we don't need more jails, we need new ways to help people avoid jails

the prison system does need to focus more on rehabilitation than punishment in many areas, this is true....

[PETA]

Originally Posted by Edwin Watson

prision system did not help that process along in the least.

you know my opinion on prison - its for punishment of the felon and protection of society from that felon...

having said that, the CA penal systen does offer shitloads of rehabilitation programs for prisoners. I used to do parole hearings for San Joaquin County, CA convicted murderers eligible for parole - one of the primary factors argued by the advocate for parole was the number, quality and successful completion of rehabilitation programs. There was one man, he was 34 (had been in since he was 18) who had almost never not been involved in a rehabilitation program (incidentally - as advocate for denial I asked him one question..... "if you had to do it again, would you?" - - not sure if a larger slower softball could be tee'd up)

Certain prisoners may not be eligible for these programs - I'd death row inmates would likely be amongst them. Hwever, the fact that this man still managed to find ways to accomplish what he did, in prison and independantly does speak well of him.

[Edwin Watson]

Originally Posted by xian

you know my opinion on prison - its for punishment of the felon and protection of society from that felon...

having said that, the CA penal systen does offer shitloads of rehabilitation programs for prisoners. I used to do parole hearings for San Joaquin County, CA convicted murderers eligible for parole - one of the primary factors argued by the advocate for parole was the number, quality and successful completion of rehabilitation programs. There was one man, he was 34 (had been in since he was 18) who had almost never not been involved in a rehabilitation program (incidentally - as advocate for denial I asked him one question..... "if you had to do it again, would you?" - - not sure if a larger slower softball could be tee'd up)

Certain prisoners may not be eligible for these programs - I'd death row inmates would likely be amongst them. Hwever, the fact that this man still managed to find ways to accomplish what he did, in prison and independantly does speak well of him.

you should see the movie, i highly recommend it. for real.

are you talking about Angels with Dirty Faces?