American a Police State? Freedom of speech?

[junglisticDaze]

Why have you never heard of either one of these very provocative documentaries? I know I haven't until a friend turned me onto them. Odd when I even discuss any of these issues raised in these documentaries the majority of the people either refuse to discuss or just state that's one of those things you just don't want to know.. What happened to America and true patriotism? Are we all just so caught up in our day to day bullshit that we don't even question the truth we are spoonfed via our corporate media? I am not left-wing, I am not right-wing.. I am an American and I feel like we have forgotten what that really means. Freedom of speech, freedom to think?

Anyways check out these documentaries, they are disturbing - I am not saying I think any of them are the truth, however are you too afraid to step through the looking glass?

Take the red pill.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...q=loose+change
Concerning questionable events surrounding the event of 911.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...38481450976252
Concerning the rapid decay of the middle-east due to America's liberal use of depleted uranium munitions which have a half-life of 4.5 billion years and the use of OUR troops as guineapigs for medicinal experiments throughout this past century and into currentday.

[Deff Gordon]

head over to UB and those topics are not only discussed, but true life for a lot.

[junglisticDaze]

Useless Blabber?

Did you know the UN declared the use of depleted uranium munitions as illegal and inhumane BEFORE we invaded Iraq? Did you know that Depleted Uranium is a weapon of mass destruction not unlike a nuclear missle without the big-bang?

This weapon is basically an economic death-sentence for this area and we are likely to see effects for years to come. Not only is there the initial destruction from the AP rounds, when the shell implodes it actually goes radioactive, and do you think the uranium just vanishes? And I suppose you also know we "used" (or discarded.. however you wish to view it) 340 tons of depleted uranium in both gulf wars combined.. The UN determined this munition as inhumane because it will have a major impact on any enviroment it is introduced into without being biast as to the population it effects - any food or water sources that this composite contaminates will be deemed toxic.

Ok so maybe you are a skeptic, here is a straight q&a strictly factual site on the composite we used for all of our AP rounds in the gulf wars.
http://www.gulflink.osd.mil/faq_17apr.htm

Ok so depleted uranium is not toxic unless it is actually digested into the body. Well let's see here, this is introduced into a desert enviroment where not only is there plenty of dust/sand but also violent wind-storms. Our soldiers in many instances were also positioned downwind from the targets. No red flags going off yet?

I hardly find this useless blabber, and it seems that awareness (documentaries even if you have no belief in them atleast challenge you on a mental level to question events instead of accepting the media's "truth")

and yes politics.. no I posted in the right place.

[Adam D]

The US used DU shells in the first Gulf War, and mysteriously the "Gulf War syndrome" appears in soldiers who returned. The DoD refuses to even investigate the possibility that DU shells were responsible (although handling DU-tipped shells require a HazMat suit by DoD protocol). A similar "syndrome" has appeared in soldiers returning from the former Yugoslavia after the 1999 bombing campaigns. No doubt the same "syndrome" will appear in soldiers returning from this war. Also, the rate of irregularities in births increased, as did cases of cancer, in Iraq following the first war and in the former Yugoslavia.

It's feasible to suggest some biological or chemical weapon unleashed by Hussein against our soldiers during the war, but I've seen no evidence to suggest the effects of either forms of weapons would continue to exist 10+ years later. And even if one had been used by Hussein, that doesn't explain the similarities between the effects in Yugoslavia and Iraq.

So much for supporting the troops when it comes down to questions of massive financial liability and getting in the way of our war machine.

[junglisticDaze]

Have you seen the documentaries I posted adam? Seriously it is flat out scarey how many people shun any topic that questions our government's actions. I'm not some conspiracy theory advocate but I do believe in the pursuit of knowledge.

It's really upsetting that our government is cutting families of those infected with this so-called mysterious gulf war syndrome off of their medical benefit programs. These vets are fighting for us and our way of life. Apparently the DU cells emit alpha/gamma radiation and have been found in all parts of an effected person's anatomy including semen. Therefore it is actually contagious in a way.. Any girls out there slept with a GW vet or plan on it? This just blows me away.

[zerojunkie]

Originally Posted by junglisticDaze

Apparently the DU cells emit alpha/gamma radiation and have been found in all parts of an effected person's anatomy including semen. Therefore it is actually contagious in a way.. Any girls out there slept with a GW vet or plan on it? This just blows me away.

Critical thinking is in short supply around here these days...it's not the radioactive properties of DU that are dangerous. Just so you know. And there's a pretty compelling case, as Adam mentioned, it could be caused by exposure to minute amounts of nerve or mustard gas. Before you go too far off into tin-foil hat land consider the alternatives. There's been a lot of research done on this over the years, with varying results. It's never as simple as you think.

[PETA]

Originally Posted by zerojunkie

Critical thinking is in short supply around here these days...it's not the radioactive properties of DU that are dangerous. Just so you know. And there's a pretty compelling case, as Adam mentioned, it could be caused by exposure to minute amounts of nerve or mustard gas. Before you go too far off into tin-foil hat land consider the alternatives. There's been a lot of research done on this over the years, with varying results. It's never as simple as you think.

DU.... some one please correct me if I'm off on this....


Its my understanding that DU is used in anti-tank (or armored vehicle) rounds because its really really fucking hard and when shot through an enclosed space at extremely high velocity the exit of the round takes the atmosphere inside the vehicle and expells it though that exit hole.... taking all the air and lots of body parts with it.

It is not unlike the concept of using incidiniary devices at the mouths of caves and similar structures... the fire from the bomb at the mouth of the cave requires so much oxygen that it sucks all the air out of the cave... all inhabitants of the cave are destroyed by suffocation - not by being burned.

the secondary consequences of the weapon are the deadly consequences....

[AuralAssassin]

So it's a WMD?

Sounds like we should stock up on it, just in case the buddhists of Asia decide that they want to ruin their karmic evolution. We all know that those monks are hostile.

Originally Posted by xian

DU.... some one please correct me if I'm off on this....


Its my understanding that DU is used in anti-tank (or armored vehicle) rounds because its really really fucking hard and when shot through an enclosed space at extremely high velocity the exit of the round takes the atmosphere inside the vehicle and expells it though that exit hole.... taking all the air and lots of body parts with it.

It is not unlike the concept of using incidiniary devices at the mouths of caves and similar structures... the fire from the bomb at the mouth of the cave requires so much oxygen that it sucks all the air out of the cave... all inhabitants of the cave are destroyed by suffocation - not by being burned.

the secondary consequences of the weapon are the deadly consequences....

[zerojunkie]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kinetic_energy_penetrator

An advantage of DU is that it is pyrophoric: the fragments of the penetrator ignite on contact with air. Because of depleted uranium's adiabatic response to pressure, when the penetrator hits the target the round's cross-sectional area at the point of impact decreases. The result is that the uranium rod is self-sharpening on impact

Doesn't sound like it'd be too fun on the receiving end...then again, I couldn't imagine a situation in which being 'kinetically penetrated' would be.

[junglisticDaze]

Well, in the documentary they don't lay sole blame upon these munition rounds. I seriously hope you guys at least check it out and give some feedback.

1: The irresponsible use of DU rounds and lack of training for our soldiers.
2: Untested vaccinations which our soldiers were forced to have administered including Anthrax and various others. The FDA actually found chemicals in some batches which were used in an untested HIV vaccination as well. This is where they go in-depth on past government medicinal testing and experimentation using our own military forces as "guinea pigs" - These vaccinations are still going on today in Iraq and are still required - numerous soldiers have actually resigned from active-duty since some of these cases have gone public, it isn't mentioned but I'm sure they were subject to dishonorable discharges and the likes.
3: Chemical Sirens were in place to warn troops of chemical attacks, these sounded on almost a daily basis per some witnesses in the video yet they were advised it was a simple malfunction. Per this documentary 14,000 alarms sounded and the government claims they were all false-alarms.
4: Negligence - Troops were ordered to destroy many munitions bunkers and nuclear facilities that are thought to have caused many of the more severe cases of illnesses in our troops. There is footage of interviews with Chaney and the likes where they claim they had no knowledge of the ammunition being hazardous - however in video footage taken the ammunition is actually labeled in English with bio toxins. Much of the ammunition destroyed came from US / Britain / and primarily the Soviet union per witness accounts and footage. They suggest this was ultimately not to destroy these weapons but more-so to destroy evidence.

There is allot more they discuss in-depth I believe its about ninety minutes in length.. I really want to believe it isn't true however the evidence provided was enough to convince me of definite negligence on our military side even if was not their direct intention there should be no excuse for this..

[PETA]

Originally Posted by zerojunkie

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kinetic_energy_penetrator



Doesn't sound like it'd be too fun on the receiving end...then again, I couldn't imagine a situation in which being 'kinetically penetrated' would be.

here's a bit I got from some I know in the service... he explains w/a caveat

as I understand it the depleted uranium is used in tank killer rounds and for armor penetration. One such round is a uranium rod encased inside a projectile, the projectile is used to disperse exploding armor (exploding armor sends the blast out and away from the tank blah blah) when that happens the rod inside the shell is ejected into the now armorless tank.

There are two stories of what I heard happens and I have nothing but anecodotal evidence:

1. the round penetrates with so much speed and heat that it goes straight through the tank causing such a vaccuum that everyone inside is sucked out through a very small hole.

2. the round penetrates the tank and spalls. basically like introducing a supersonic pinball to the inside of the tank.

Regardless of the truth either would provide a rather painful and bloody death.

[Edwin Watson]

1. DU is not the cause of Gulf War Syndrome - they already know this.

2. What does any of this have to do with a police state

3. If you are going to try to construct some very controversial arguments about some very important events and issues please try to use correct spelling and grammar. It will give you a bit more credibility.... The level of "I take this guy seriously" drops significantly when you can't even spell the name of the Vice President correctly.

4. The history of medical "experimentation" on the troops is well known and well documented. There have been significant debates on this and every soldier I know is aware that their booster shots contain all sorts of crazy crap.

5. While I agree that DU shells are not the best tools, there are procedures in place for clean up and, in addition, they are being phased out.

6. These are not WMD's in any shape, form or fashion

7. and I dunno, too lazy to look at the rest....

[PETA]

Originally Posted by Edwin Watson

1. DU is not the cause of Gulf War Syndrome - they already know this.

2. What does any of this have to do with a police state

3. If you are going to try to construct some very controversial arguments about some very important events and issues please try to use correct spelling and grammar. It will give you a bit more credibility.... The level of "I take this guy seriously" drops significantly when you can't even spell the name of the Vice President correctly.

4. The history of medical "experimentation" on the troops is well known and well documented. There have been significant debates on this and every soldier I know is aware that their booster shots contain all sorts of crazy crap.

5. While I agree that DU shells are not the best tools, there are procedures in place for clean up and, in addition, they are being phased out.

6. These are not WMD's in any shape, form or fashion

7. and I dunno, too lazy to look at the rest....

Edwin you fucking ornery goat! Why take side swipes at fair, honest and well intentioned attempts to take blind broadside blasts at the evil Bush administration.... huh?

Never let sound evidence and argument interfere with an otherwise wonderful bit of polemic.... hehe

[Edwin Watson]

Originally Posted by xian

Edwin you fucking ornery goat! Why take side swipes at fair, honest and well intentioned attempts to take blind broadside blasts at the evil Bush administration.... huh?

Never let sound evidence and argument interfere with an otherwise wonderful bit of polemic.... hehe

Don't get me wrong, I still don't like Bush and I have made that abundantly clear.

I don't like Bush for the same reason I don't like the arguments presented in this thread... I choose rationality, intelligence and reality over ignorance, rhetoric and fantasy.

[PETA]

Originally Posted by Edwin Watson

I don't like Bush for the same reason I don't like the arguments presented in this thread... I choose rationality, intelligence and reality over ignorance, rhetoric and fantasy.

right - I understand that - I was simply objecting to you taking such a principled stance, especially when it interferes with baseless rantings