Abortion in America?

[DREX]

Originally Posted by Porkchop Avenger

If a woman or couple agree to have an abortion (for whatever reason they come up with), and if it doesn't cost me/the government any money, then they can do whatever the fuck they want.

My belief system should not affect anyone but me.

what if a couple due to there beliefs doesnt allow there child to recieve medical attention and it dies as a result?...what if they like to eat bbq baby seal cuz its part of there ancestry?

[Dionysos]

Originally Posted by DREX

insanity is a legal term that only applies within the context of a criminal act....do you feel people with ocd should be able to have babies?...what about severe add?

If you can't pay attention to your child long enough to OOOOH SHINY THING

[Hey Bubu]

Originally Posted by DREX

what if a couple due to there beliefs doesnt allow there child to recieve medical attention and it dies as a result?...what if they like to eat bbq baby seal cuz its part of there ancestry?

A) Personal belief? the child should get all the medical attention possible. On the same token, what about all the children that are in need of medical attention, is the government and the people truly doing anything to help them out? Apples and oranges man.

B) Apples and Oranges as well.

What are the rammifications of the choices a person or a group make? how does it affect the whole? what are the rights of the individual and how much should the government/tribe/group intervene?

The "universe" is amoral.

[>]

If it's illegal in other countries, giving birth to the child should be punishment ENOUGH.

[e-brake]

Originally Posted by DREX

what if they like to eat bbq baby seal cuz its part of there ancestry?

mmmm baby seal, Im all for it, in fact if you can find somewhere that sells baby seal carcus I woudl be glad to host the BBQ at my place.

[DREX]

Originally Posted by Porkchop Avenger

A) Personal belief? the child should get all the medical attention possible. On the same token, what about all the children that are in need of medical attention, is the government and the people truly doing anything to help them out? Apples and oranges man.

B) Apples and Oranges as well.

What are the rammifications of the choices a person or a group make? how does it affect the whole? what are the rights of the individual and how much should the government/tribe/group intervene?

The "universe" is amoral.

all im saying is your orig argument was that if it doesnt cost you/govt money then you dont care what ppl do and im saying is these things dont effect you directly either

[Hey Bubu]

Originally Posted by DREX

all im saying is your orig argument was that if it doesnt cost you/govt money then you dont care what ppl do and im saying is these things dont effect you directly either

You are right and they don't and will not, well maybe with the exception of the seals bit. if it comes down to the point of extinction then the possible ecological rammifications may affect me or my family in the long term. I say, grow seals for food. That better?



oh your questions were baiting as you did not state the intent of them.

[PETA]

Originally Posted by kalamu

..

that it is easy to kill an unborn baby makes America great?

bravo kalamu

Originally Posted by kalamu

what does this mean? you would support saving the mother or child in this situation?

my stance is that if the mothers health is in danger then it's up to the mother to decide. in fact my position is that it's up to the mother to decide regardless of the situation. if the woman wants an abortion and it's medically possible to do it then it should be done.

If the mother will die giving birth, an abortion to prevent it cannot be illegal.

And yes, I know you do not think there should be any limit to abortion. I find it odd that you're not trioubled with killing innocent unborn children but you get up in arms about killing proven murderers.

Originally Posted by DREX

the problem i have always seen with the rape argument is that it is very difficult to prove unless reported immedietly after the incedent...typically beyond that it becomes the word of the victim....if rape were the sole reason that one could have an abortion after the first trimester i would suspect we would see a sharp increase in claims of rape

I bet you are right

Originally Posted by Satchel

So if all second and third term abortions were banned, what do you think would be the appropriate action to take if someone had one? I don't see why jailing them would be such a stretch.

I don't think the mothers would be the appropriate targets if the goal was saving babies from abortion who have reached the second trimester. The better route, I suspect would be to toss the doctor in the hoosegow.

Originally Posted by kalamu

yep. they aren't the same thing.

Why aren't they? In both cases a person is being killed.

Originally Posted by Porkchop Avenger

If a woman or couple agree to have an abortion (for whatever reason they come up with), and if it doesn't cost me/the government any money, then they can do whatever the fuck they want.

My belief system should not affect anyone but me.

That's a silly argument. If some one believes eating their children is ok - it doesn't hurt you and it doesn't cost you or the government anything they should be able to do it?

Your belief system is very important and if you aren't willing to say eating children is wrng - then who will - huh?

Seriously though - you're making a moral relativism argument and that's a dangerous road

Originally Posted by Porkchop Avenger

The "universe" is amoral.

doesn't mean you should be or that you should find it an acceptable way to view the "universe"

[DREX]

just so everyone knows the guttermacher institute is totally pro abortion ( i hate the terms pro choice/pro life) alan guttmacher was the president of planned parenthood for many years...these are there numbers:

Reasons for abortions:

According to the Guttmacher Institute, there were 1.31 million abortions in the US in 2000, and cases of rape or incest accounted for 1.0% of abortions in 2000. Another study revealed that women reported the following reasons for choosing an abortion:

* 25.5% Want to postpone childbearing
* 21.3% Cannot afford a baby
* 14.1% Has relationship problem or partner does not want pregnancy
* 12.2% Too young; parent(s) or other(s) object to pregnancy
* 10.8% Having a child will disrupt education or job
* 7.9% Want no (more) children
* 3.3% Risk to fetal health
* 2.8% Risk to maternal health
* 2.1% Rape, Incest, Other

the point being that the rape/incest/baby or mothers health argument is very prominent in these discussions but if those were the only abortions being performed this discusion would not even be happening right now...it would be a non issue

[PETA]

Originally Posted by DREX

* 2.1% Rape, Incest, Other

the point being that the rape/incest/baby or mothers health argument is very prominent in these discussions but if those were the only abortions being performed this discusion would not even be happening right now...it would be a non issue

That rape is a narrow category is encouraging if one can use such a word in a discussion like this.

[kalamu]

Originally Posted by xian

Why aren't they? In both cases a person is being killed.

i don't think an abortion kills a person, i think it kills a fetus and isn't the same thing as the DP

[KING SIZE]

Originally Posted by kalamu

i don't think an abortion kills a person, i think it kills a fetus and isn't the same thing as the DP

it doesn't really matter what you think.. it's still killing a person, just like 1+1=2. now with that said.. it should be the womans choice.

[kalamu]

fetus = unborn
person = born

there is the difference. raise your hand if you remember your life as a fetus.

[Funkenstein]

Originally Posted by kalamu

fetus = unborn
person = born

there is the difference. raise your hand if you remember your life as a fetus.

Raise your hand if you are thankful that someone considered you a person waiting to come into this world.

Call us growing protoplasm, a ball of cultured DNA, or an amorphous blob of being, it still is a person. If that was not the case, then we can and should willingly suck the souls out of the lesser living (i.e. children) to power those with greater intellect (i.e adults) since obviously they deign themselves to be "persons" of working intellect.

/cues Jonathan Swift's "A Modest Proposal"

[Dionysos]

Originally Posted by kalamu

fetus = unborn
person = born

there is the difference. raise your hand if you remember your life as a fetus.

And here's the rub. If people could agree on a definition for when life begins, the abortion issue would have been solved already. For me, I believe abortions should be allowed up until about the 24 week mark of pregnancy when the 'age of viability' transpires. If the fetus can be removed and sustain life on it's own(with the help of doctors) then you've lost the right to decide its fate. Besides, why would it take you 6 months to to decide whether you want to keep the baby?