Abortion in America?

[Hey Bubu]

Originally Posted by xian

Which, absent problems by choice or by chance, will result in a baby being born 9 months later. The possibilitites are that it is born or it is not born.

So, do we treat all life the same or not? is it moral or not to kill animals for meat? We've simplified the argument to something being alive or not. Dangerous territory this is.

[PETA]

Originally Posted by for the record

Anybody who is pro-life, who believes life begins at the moment of conception........ do you ever smash cockroaches? Kill flies? Caught a fish? Gone hunting? All of those things are living, and alive. They have hearts that pump, they have blood. Do you eat hamburgers? Cows have brains. Do you eat any other meats? Many animals you eat are very intelligent.

Sure, I've killed all of the above and I hunt and eat meat. I draw the line at eating people though. Most other do too. (Excepting Brian's wonderful reference of course) .

For the record for the record -- plants are alive too and they generally have to be killed to be of value to you nutritionally

Originally Posted by for the record

How can you be so hardcore about preserving unwanted human "life" before it's even begun..., when you take part in the killing of many other living things, with souls/hearts/brains every single day?

1) You presume it is unwanted and more importantly 2) you are not distinguishing between a cockroach and a human baby - I'd offer that you cannot consider them as equals for the purpose of this (or pretty much any) discussion

Originally Posted by Porkchop Avenger

So, do we treat all life the same or not? is it moral or not to kill animals for meat? We've simplified the argument to something being alive or not. Dangerous territory this is.

Of course not, all life is not human. Human life is more important that the lives of animals or plants. That's not a challenging concept

[>]

Originally Posted by xian

Sure, I've killed all of the above and I hunt and eat meat. I draw the line at eating people though. Most other do too. (Excepting Brian's wonderful reference of course) .

For the record for the record -- plants are alive too and they generally have to be killed to be of value to you nutritionally

Plants don't have brains and aren't intelligent in the way humans, and some mamals and animals are. If you kill animals for nutritional value, sport, or for any other reason.. you should have no qualms about killing an emreyo.

[PETA]

Originally Posted by Satchel

My point is that if it is so terrible to have an abortion then the penalty should fit the crime. If it isn't that terrible then what is the point of this MASSIVE attempt to make it illegal? There would have to be a penalty, and I don't see how it could possibly be a misdeanor.

You're suggesting an all or nothing proposition and I do not believe that it is all or nothing. (You remind me of Congreessman Charlie Wrangle - vote against the war and then propose a draft )

And, there is no MASSIVE attempt to make abortion illegal. There are attempts to confine it - most recently the several struck laws attempting to ban partial birth abortion.

Prior to Roe most (I think most) state had already made abortion legal.

[Hey Bubu]

Personally, I think abortion should not be viewed as an alternative or another "contraceptive" available out there. If one is aware enough to procreate, one should be responsible enough to take precautions, if shit does happen and contraceptives (no quotations) did not work, then stick to the rule of thumb as we now know it.

[PETA]

Originally Posted by for the record

Plants don't have brains and aren't intelligent in the way humans, and some mamals and animals are. If you kill animals for nutritional value, sport, or for any other reason.. you should have no qualms about killing an emreyo.

Arguing on your terms... I'm not killing it for sport or food.

Arguing on more rational terms .. You're still equating things that you should not equate. Society doesn't for example, find deer hunting a mass exercise in murder of deer. Put simply - Humans are humans and everything else... isn't. We treat Humans differently than those things not human... for good reason.

[DREX]

Originally Posted by for the record

Plants don't have brains and aren't intelligent in the way humans, and some mamals and animals are. If you kill animals for nutritional value, sport, or for any other reason.. you should have no qualms about killing an emreyo.

strong argument there....what was the point of your original post? are you upset that other countries laws governing abortion arent as permissive as ours? how far along were you?

[>]

Originally Posted by xian

We treat Humans differently than those things not human... for good reason.

Yea, I guess therein lies the rub 4 me, because I place animals above humans.

[>]

Originally Posted by Porkchop Avenger

Personally, I think abortion should not be viewed as an alternative or another "contraceptive" available out there.

Definately agreed.

[>]

Originally Posted by DREX

strong argument there....what was the point of your original post? are you upset that other countries laws governing abortion arent as permissive as ours? how far along were you?

My point was that I just wasn't aware of how much more liberal we are in the US than in practically every other country when it comes to abortions.. yet our country has the most strife on the issue. Maybe if we changed some of our laws, people's attitudes would be changing about having unprotected sex, about using abortions as controceptives, etc. Abortions are given for many, many reasons. Depending on the situation, sometimes I would say it was wrong to have the abortion, other times I would say it was the right thing to do. I was 3 weeks along. I am not upset about how other countries deal with the matter. I've been thinking that maybe if the US were like that, Americans might start changing their bad habbits and really start thinking about consequences to their actions... because right now, here in the US.. most women aren't doing that.

[PETA]

Originally Posted by for the record

Yea, I guess therein lies the rub 4 me, because I place animals above humans.

that would indeed create a dilema for you