Here we go again...

[zerojunkie]

Bangkok Post Breaking News

Muslim angry over pope's remarks

By Deutsche Presse-Agentur dpa

Anger mounted across the Muslim world Friday over remarks made by Pope Benedict XVI during a visit to Germany this week in which the pontiff quoted a 14th century Christian emperor as calling aspects of the legacy of Islam's Prophet Mohammed "evil and inhuman."

In Pakistan, both houses of parliament - the National Assembly and the Senate - passed unanimous resolutions Friday calling on Pope Benedict to retract his remarks.

The National Assembly resolution said the pope's remarks hurt the feelings of Muslims worldwide, created a gulf between religions and demanded that the pope withdraw his remarks immediately "to promote inter-religion harmony."

In Egypt, the chairman of the Islamist Muslim Brotherhood movement, Mohammed Mahdi Akef, expressed his "astonishment" over the German-born pope's remarks, saying the pontiff's statements demonstrated "ignorance of Islamic teachings" and showed Western clerics and politicians were "hostile to Islam."

The pope's remarks came Tuesday in Regensburg in his home state of Bavaria, when he was quoting a conversation that took place in Ankara in the year 1391 between Byzantine Emperor Manuel II Paleologus and an educated Persian on Christianity and Islam.

"Show me just what Mohammed brought that was new, and there you will find things only evil and inhuman, such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached," the pope quoted Manuel as saying.

As head of the Muslim Brotherhood, which is banned by law but tolerated in Egypt, was calling on Pope Benedict to apologize, the Vatican was attempting to shore up criticism of the pontiff on a day that saw a new Vatican secretary of state, Cardinal Tarcisio Bertone, take office.

One of the first tasks awaiting Bertone, an Italian, who becomes the Vatican's new "prime minister" will be to repair the damage caused by Benedict's remarks.

In a statement issued Thursday, Vatican spokesman Federico Lombardi already assured the pope was keen to "cultivate an attitude of respect and dialogue toward other religions and cultures, obviously toward Islam too" and that what the pope took exception to was the "religious motivation of violence."

Lombardi was also quoted by daily La Repubblica Friday as saying the pope "never intended to offend the sensibility of Muslim believers," but such assurances appeared unlikely to bring a quick end to the controversy.

In Saudi Arabia, the Organization of the Islamic Conference (OIC) which groups together 57 countries with Muslim populations, in a statement criticized the "smear campaign" by the Pope against the Prophet Mohammed.

"The Organization of the Islamic Conference hopes that this campaign is not the prelude of a new Vatican policy towards Islam," the OIC said.

In India, where Muslims account for 13.4 per cent of the population of 1.1 billion, Muslim scholars and religious leaders termed Benedict's comments irresponsible and blasphemous and several northern cities saw protests.

"The pope should have been very careful about his utterances; what he said was nothing but blasphemy," Muslim Personal Law Board Member Kamal Farooqi told the Times of India newspaper, while the chief cleric at India's largest mosque, the Jama Masjid in Delhi, urged worshippers at Friday prayers to respond in such a way as to prompt an apology from the pope.

There were angry reactions in Iran and Syria also. A member of Iran's highest Islamic body, Ahmad Khatami, termed as "outrageous" Benedict's remarks during Friday prayers in Tehran while Syria's Grand Mufti Ahmed Badereddine Hassoun sent a letter to Pope Benedict XVI asking for an explanation.

In the first sign that Christian symbols might be targeted by protestors angry over the pope's remarks, a homemade bomb exploded at the entrance to the Roman Orthodox Church in Gaza City causing damage but no injuries.

Meanwhile in Europe, Muslim populations were adding their voices to the chorus of disapproval Friday. The head of the Muslim Council of Britain, Mohammed Abdul Bari called on the pope to "clarify" his remarks "in the interests of truth and harmonious relations" between Islam and Caholicism and wondered at the pope's quoting of "ill- informed and frankly bigoted" remarks.

In the northern French city of Lille, the rector of a mosque also criticized the comments as "a hateful provocation" a day after the head of the French Council of the Muslim Religion, Dalil Boubakeur, demanded a "clarification" from the Vatican over the pope's comments.

Britain is home to an estimated 1.6 million Muslims, France 5 million.

Maybe thats was what he was talking about? And maybe we're 'hostile' towards Islam because they're the only religion I see that's blowing shit up because someone 'blasphemed' their religion. </rant>

[Hey Bubu]

Damn Germans!!!

so f'n ridiculous

[Hey Bubu]

Originally Posted by Luxe

so f'n ridiculous

Words are powerful and shit.

S'up?

[SOA Child]

Originally Posted by zerojunkie

Bangkok Post Breaking News





Maybe thats was what he was talking about? And maybe we're 'hostile' towards Islam because they're the only religion I see that's blowing shit up because someone 'blasphemed' their religion. </rant>

FYI, christians have been known to blow up abortion clinics

[PETA]

Originally Posted by SOA Child

FYI, christians have been known to blow up abortion clinics

And they are ostracized by our culture as a whole and by all but the most misguided Christians... to say nothing of prosecuted for crimes if and when caught. Also, while the act is completely bankrupt of logic those 3 or 4 abortion clinic attackers honestly, if mistakenly, believe they are killing the few to save the many.


Your analogy is not analogous. It is entirely lacking in insight and is no more than a cheap, flippant and ignorant response.

Please try again later... but do try better.



Abortion clinic violence

Acts of violence against abortion clinics and their employees have been carried out across the United States throughout the 1980s and 1990s.
There were 1,700 acts of violence against abortion providers between 1977 and 1994, with four people killed in 1994 and one in 1993, according to statistics from the National Abortion Federation. The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms has logged 167 attacks against abortion clinics over the past 15 years.
In 1984, there were 18 bombings against abortion clinics. In 1993, there were 78 death threats aimed at clinic employees. And, in 1996, bombings, threats and harassment affected about one-third of U.S. abortion clinics

5 people killed..... 5 too many but it serves to make your comparison pretty silly

[SOA Child]

Holy shit,

zerojunkie said: "we're 'hostile' towards Islam because they're the only religion I see that's blowing shit up because someone 'blasphemed' their religion"

I said: "FYI, christians have been known to blow up abortion clinics"

My satement is true. I wasn't implying ANYTHING negative about christianity as a whole. Most of the people I love the most in this world are wonderful christian people. He said he knew of no other religions that blow shit up and I was reminding him that there are other religions in this world that have extremeist nuts who blow shit up. It's not always JUST "Islam".

You know, your little comment was totally uncalled for and I know you totally get off on trying to be some sort of dickhead on here, but please leave me alone.

*adds to ignore list*

jesus, what a hateful SOB. Such a shining example of christian love and tolerence you are!

Originally Posted by xian

And they are ostracized by our culture as a whole and by all but the most misguided Christians... to say nothing of prosecuted for crimes if and when caught. Also, while the act is completely bankrupt of logic those 3 or 4 abortion clinic attackers honestly, if mistakenly, believe they are killing the few to save the many.


Your analogy is not analogous. It is entirely lacking in insight and is no more than a cheap, flippant and ignorant response.

Please try again later... but do try better.



Abortion clinic violence



5 people killed..... 5 too many but it serves to make your comparison pretty silly

[PETA]

Originally Posted by SOA Child

Holy shit,

zerojunkie said: "we're 'hostile' towards Islam because they're the only religion I see that's blowing shit up because someone 'blasphemed' their religion"

I said: "FYI, christians have been known to blow up abortion clinics"

My satement is true. I wasn't implying ANYTHING negative about christianity as a whole. Most of the people I love the most in this world are wonderful christian people. He said he knew of no other religions that blow shit up and I was reminding him that there are other religions in this world that have extremeist nuts who blow shit up. It's not always JUST "Islam".

You know, your little comment was totally uncalled for and I know you totally get off on trying to be some sort of dickhead on here, but please leave me alone.

*adds to ignore list*

jesus, what a hateful SOB. Such a shining example of christian love and tolerence you are!

Your comment is most definetly a comparison... "see they do it too" is a comparison. Comparisons don't imply they state directly.

Tolerance, Christian tolerance, does not require one to accept as tolerable the intolerable. A morally relativistic comment comparing abortion clinics bombings by horribly misguided Christians to the acts of Islamic terrorists is precisely that - intolerable.

I am not hateful, nor do I get off on being a dickhead (I spare my unchecked ire for a very few people who post here) - however, I am extremely quick to point out stupidity - especially when it touches on something I hold dear. If that makes you feel put upon maybe you should think before saying such a stupid thing.

[SOA Child]

Originally Posted by xian

Your comment is most definetly a comparison... "see they do it too" is a comparison. Comparisons don't imply they state directly.

Tolerance, Christian tolerance, does not require one to accept as tolerable the intolerable. A morally relativistic comment comparing abortion clinics bombings by horribly misguided Christians to the acts of Islamic terrorists is precisely that - intolerable.

I am not hateful, nor do I get off on being a dickhead (I spare my unchecked ire for a very few people who post here) - however, I am extremely quick to point out stupidity - especially when it touches on something I hold dear. If that makes you feel put upon maybe you should think before saying such a stupid thing.

No, it was NOT a "see, they do it too" comparison. It was a "see, there are nuts in EVERY religion" comparison. I think I know exactly what I was trying to imply. You seem to THINK you know it all, but trust me, I know more about what is going on inside of my own head than you do. Go ahead and automatically assume the worst of me, for whatever underlying reason you might have (you obviously have one). I am so sorry I happened to choose your preferred religion to make an example. There are plenty of other religions I could have used to make the exact same point, but I guess I chose christianity because that was the first thing that popped into my mind. I guess it makes sense that it would pop into my mind first since that IS the religion I am exposed to the most. Basic psychology, bud. You read WAY too much into any statements made about your religion of choice, just like some people tend to read WAY too much into comments that pertain to their particular race. It's a weakness and it's annoying as hell. Don't lash out at me because you are insecure, argumentative, and overly defensive. Those are YOUR problems, not mine. But I know I'm not the first person on here who has fallen victim to YOUR personal issues, and I'm sure I won't be the last.

I think you are way too quick to label people as "stupid". You may be an intelligent person but nobody likes a condscending jerk, no matter how smart he might be.

If you would just take the time to ask for clarification before you attack, it might spare us all these silly confrontations that have become a staple on this page. I don't expect you to see my point. I know you won't. I know you will continue to believe you know what my intentions were more than I. It must be fun being able to read people's minds!

True, you don't have to tolerate anything. I am definitely no expert on the teachings of christianity, so perhaps I have misunderstood the meaning of "christian tolerance". However, I am pretty sure that most of the christians I know tend to have a little bit more restraint and give people a chance to explain themselves before they go into attack mode and say things that are, yes, rude and hateful. That's just been my experience with christians, but as you so eloquently pointed out, there are a few christians out there who are "misguided". I now know one of them. Pleased to make your acquaintance.

Originally Posted by SOA Child

No, it was NOT a "see, they do it too" comparison. It was a "see, there are nuts in EVERY religion" comparison.

Yes but not all religious nuts are involved in unrest & war, with their cities & homes in shambles around them. Muslim leaders claim acts of violence are blasphemous to Islam, the Pope makes his remarks (which were more or less the ugly truth), & they get all upset. Again. Clue: bomb at a Catholic church in Gaza City. Shit's getting old..

[PETA]

Originally Posted by SOA Child

No, it was NOT a "see, they do it too" comparison. It was a "see, there are nuts in EVERY religion" comparison. I think I know exactly what I was trying to imply. You seem to THINK you know it all, but trust me, I know more about what is going on inside of my own head than you do.

I bet you do. The problem you have is incommunicating that to third parties.

I'll accept you didn't mean to make a direct comparison but it sure looked like one.

Originally Posted by SOA Child

Go ahead and automatically assume the worst of me, for whatever underlying reason you might have (you obviously have one).

I have zero opinion about you. I have a pretty strong one about what you wrote.

Originally Posted by SOA Child

I am so sorry I happened to choose your preferred religion to make an example. There are plenty of other religions I could have used to make the exact same point, but I guess I chose christianity because that was the first thing that popped into my mind. I guess it makes sense that it would pop into my mind first since that IS the religion I am exposed to the most. Basic psychology, bud. You read WAY too much into any statements made about your religion of choice, just like some people tend to read WAY too much into comments that pertain to their particular race. It's a weakness and it's annoying as hell. Don't lash out at me because you are insecure, argumentative, and overly defensive. Those are YOUR problems, not mine. But I know I'm not the first person on here who has fallen victim to YOUR personal issues, and I'm sure I won't be the last.

I "lashed" out not out of insecurity - I'm pretty damn secure in my opinions. I explained why I reacted the way I did. You said you didn't mean the comment the way I read it. Ok. I'll take you at your word.

Originally Posted by SOA Child

I think you are way too quick to label people as "stupid". You may be an intelligent person but nobody likes a condscending jerk, no matter how smart he might be.

true enough - and I apologize directly for misreading.

Originally Posted by SOA Child

If you would just take the time to ask for clarification before you attack, it might spare us all these silly confrontations that have become a staple on this page. I don't expect you to see my point. I know you won't. I know you will continue to believe you know what my intentions were more than I. It must be fun being able to read people's minds!

Though no excuse, it is an explanation, the common Rosie O'Donnell type bullshit attempt to link as analogous things that are not -- Islamic fundamentalism with the Christan right are far too common and perhaps linger too long. Again, you're right I should have begged clarification before taking your head off.









so there

[SOA Child]

Originally Posted by Luxe

Yes but not all religious nuts are involved in unrest & war, with their cities & homes in shambles around them. Muslim leaders claim acts of violence are blasphemous to Islam, the Pope makes his remarks (which were more or less the ugly truth), & they get all upset. Again. Clue: bomb at a Catholic church in Gaza City. Shit's getting old..

Yes, I totally agree with you. I wasn't comparing violent acts by exrtremist christians to your typical violent acts by fundamentalist muslims. ALL I was pointing out is that there are some people in other religions who commit violent acts. A statement was made that NO other religions have people who commit viloent acts. I was simply saying that it isn't true. That's all. Shit people, I am not a sympathizer of islamist extremism. I do not hate christians. I feel like I'm live on the "no spin zone" with Bill!!

[SOA Child]

xian
This message is hidden because xian is on your ignore list.

[zerojunkie]

Not to get this thread going in another direction, but to respond violently to someone speaking unfavorably of your religion and doing so because someone performs abortions are two pretty different things. No less abhorrent, but they're not really comparable.

[SOA Child]

Originally Posted by zerojunkie

Not to get this thread going in another direction, but to respond violently to someone speaking unfavorably of your religion and doing so because someone performs abortions are two pretty different things. No less abhorrent, but they're not really comparable.

OK, I'll say it for the 4th time now. I agree with what you stated above. I never said that the violent acts are comparible in any way. All I said is that violent acts HAVE been committed in the name of other religions, besides Islam. That's all I said and it's all I was implying. No hidden meaning!

eh, fuck it, you guys are right. I blindly hate all christians and I think that they are just as bad as muslims extremeists in every way. Whatever, you guys can think what you want about me...I'm 1500 miles away from you all anyway (praise alah)