Before the bang

[Hey Bubu]

Originally Posted by Dionysos

How exactly does a gaseous entity have a spine, Hernando?

My point exactly

[PETA]

Originally Posted by Dionysos

It doesn't suggest anything to me. There's a lot in this universe we don't understand; the difference is that you're willing to believe an imaginary being is playing us all like marionettes, but I don't.

Of course I'd be willing to change that view if you accept my trade offer.

Haven't seen the trade offer yet.... been out of town as evidenced by my morning posting explosion

I don't think that characterization of God is anything like what I imagine God to be but your point is of course well taken. However, "There are more things in heaven and earth, Jonny (Horatio), Than are dreamt of in your philosophy."

I get the easiest route in this debate. As science claims no God it must offer some explanation and so far has offered little. As a believer in God all I have to do is point to scientists and say, "ok - cool - that's how God did it." It is a nowhere debate if it centers on god v no god because the data in contemplation doesn't prove or disprove God. Makes it no less fascinating though.

Originally Posted by Xodiac

Okay, but here's the kicker, can explain exactly WHY it is that the notion time extending infinitely into the past and future doesn't "make sense"? I mean, the idea that we live in 27 dimentions but only experience 3 of them doesn't make intuitive sense. Neither does the earth being round, we basically experience it as flat.

But that's merely a discussion on perception. Describing color to the color blind is as big a waste of time as describing what a 5 dimensional object looks like to 3D beings. Or some such thing. Incidentally - the shadow of a 4D object is a 3D object - or so I was told... funky notion to be sure.

Originally Posted by Xodiac

"Intent" is not even a scientific term, it's more of a psycho-philosophical term used used in the sense you're describing.

Agreed. But that doesn't mean it was misused

Originally Posted by Porkchop Avenger

All we can do is speculate and try to comprehend what is going on with what little we see and understand at this point in time. I do agree with the notion that some gaseous vertebrate is out there to get me and make my life hell if I don't believe in it, is rather silly.

Is the notion of a universal consciousness, an intelligence that underlies the fabric of the cosmos, silly?

[kalamu]

being in a lot of company is all you've got xian.

[Hey Bubu]

Originally Posted by xian

Is the notion of a universal consciousness, an intelligence that underlies the fabric of the cosmos, silly?

Not at all, but claiming eternal damnation on people that do not believe the model of a higher intelligence is rather asinine.

Believe in whatever higher power you want to believe in, just don't push it on others.

[PETA]

Originally Posted by Porkchop Avenger

Not at all, but claiming eternal damnation on people that do not believe the model of a higher intelligence is rather asinine.

So then the concept of God is not silly - only people usng the notion to preach fire and brimstone?

You know, or maybe you didn't but I've said it here a few times , I believe God is essentially unknowable and that we merely gain occassional glimpses and insight into the divine. My particular faith is merely a manifestation of revelation - but it is what I believe. Life is too short to learn everything - we must chose a path.

I can agree with you that those who would claim exclusive ownership of all that is true, right and proper are silly. That another's path may differ is no cause to condemn.

Originally Posted by Porkchop Avenger

Believe in whatever higher power you want to believe in, just don't push it on others.

I can accept that those who feel that that've got it - that they have the secret (or however they'd describe it) would want to share it. That is an exuberant expression of faith. But, as you said, when one goes further and condemns another for opting not to share you views - yeah - then you've got not just assinine you've got an asshole.

[Dionysos]

Originally Posted by xian

Haven't seen the trade offer yet.... been out of town as evidenced by my morning posting explosion

Explosion is putting it mildly. It's like you woke up out of a coma and immediately got on A&P.

Originally Posted by xian

I don't think that characterization of God is anything like what I imagine God to be but your point is of course well taken. However, "There are more things in heaven and earth, Jonny (Horatio), Than are dreamt of in your philosophy."

I'd say that's more applicable of your philosophy than mine, but you haven't ever really heard mine fleshed out either. The short version is that rather than attribute the things we don't understand to God, I simply leave them as unknown. Where you see the lack of an explanation as evidence of a supernatural presence, I see a question with no answer(yet). I don't rule out God as a possibility, but I don't default to a deity simply because there isn't an alternative explanation out there.

[Hey Bubu]

Originally Posted by xian

I can accept that those who feel that that've got it - that they have the secret (or however they'd describe it) would want to share it. That is an exuberant expression of faith. But, as you said, when one goes further and condemns another for opting not to share you views - yeah - then you've got not just assinine you've got an asshole.

I have no issues with people sharing knowledge, there's for the most part something to be learned and taken from just about any idea we have created (we as in human beings.)

[Xodiac]

But that's merely a discussion on perception. Describing color to the color blind is as big a waste of time as describing what a 5 dimensional object looks like to 3D beings. Or some such thing. Incidentally - the shadow of a 4D object is a 3D object - or so I was told... funky notion to be sure.

Yes, exactly! With the limits of our perception and knowedge, trying to argue someting like "everything has to have been created with a purpose, because it makes more sense or seems more right" is like a blind guy arguing about the color of the sky.

I'd say that's more applicable of your philosophy than mine, but you haven't ever really heard mine fleshed out either. The short version is that rather than attribute the things we don't understand to God, I simply leave them as unknown. Where you see the lack of an explanation as evidence of a supernatural presence, I see a question with no answer(yet). I don't rule out God as a possibility, but I don't default to a deity simply because there isn't an alternative explanation out there.

Ooh. Well said!

[Hey Bubu]

Originally Posted by Xodiac

Yes, exactly! With the limits of our perception and knowedge, trying to argue someting like "everything has to have been created with a purpose, because it makes more sense or seems more right" is like a blind guy arguing about the color of the sky.

With that in mind, what have you perceived in the material word that has no purpose?

[Dionysos]

Originally Posted by Porkchop Avenger

With that in mind, what have you perceived in the material word that has no purpose?

House DJs

[Hey Bubu]

Originally Posted by Dionysos

House DJs

Licio Gelli says LOL

[kalamu]

Originally Posted by Porkchop Avenger

With that in mind, what have you perceived in the material word that has no purpose?

you can believe that everything has a purpose without believing God created the universe.

[Hey Bubu]

Originally Posted by kalamu

you can believe that everything has a purpose without believing God created the universe.

Indeed you can.

[djetaine]

So i thought this WASNT about creationism dammit... Anyway. I'd really like to see an article or some research into this theory. Because as it stands in this thread, it's just an idea with no scientific basis. I could have made this up on my own and called it science. Link please?

[Hey Bubu]

Dude, the link is on the first post.