Illegal aliens murder 12 Americans Daily

[Mike of MA]

Originally Posted by Nyteshade

I hold Binx in higher regard than this guy. How can you lump them two together?

I guess you're right....Aural Assasin?

[Nyteshade]

Yeah but he needs to steal a laptop first.

[Adam D]

lol I'd love to actually see those statistics with my own eyes.

[I AM EL-NINO]

Originally Posted by Adam D

lol I'd love to actually see those statistics with my own eyes.

I bet youd be surprised. Might actually be worse.

[joe mac]

so what about the U.S. led neo-liberal model that has forced millions of people to migrate?

[Adam D]

Originally Posted by I AM EL-NINO

I bet youd be surprised. Might actually be worse.

I went back over the article as best as I could (can somebody learn how paragraphs work, please?) and everything quoted in the article was an "estimate" by a single group or "groups" which are not even identified. Anybody can claim to have looked at the data and come up with estimates. That's meaningless, especially when there's no way to verify the methodology, the original data, or the validity of the results.

The argument presented by citing the AAA study lacks a logical connection. The study talks about unlicensed drivers, but at least as far as what the author quotes, there is no quantitative evidence of how many of those are illegal immigrants and how many are simply citizens without a license.

I'm not suggesting that the poor writing skills of worldnet daily's author proves illegal immigrants never commit crimes. Maybe the statistics are reasonably accurate. We don't know. I'm not inclined to believe something is true just because an author on a website known for a lack of journalistic integrity says so.

[zerojunkie]

Originally Posted by Adam D

I went back over the article as best as I could (can somebody learn how paragraphs work, please?) and everything quoted in the article was an "estimate" by a single group or "groups" which are not even identified. Anybody can claim to have looked at the data and come up with estimates. That's meaningless, especially when there's no way to verify the methodology, the original data, or the validity of the results.

The argument presented by citing the AAA study lacks a logical connection. The study talks about unlicensed drivers, but at least as far as what the author quotes, there is no quantitative evidence of how many of those are illegal immigrants and how many are simply citizens without a license.

I'm not suggesting that the poor writing skills of worldnet daily's author proves illegal immigrants never commit crimes. Maybe the statistics are reasonably accurate. We don't know. I'm not inclined to believe something is true just because an author on a website known for a lack of journalistic integrity says so.

Seems that's probably the case...


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steve_K...gration_stance

Illegal immigration stance

In April 2006, conservative members of Congress took steps to strengthen law enforcement against illegal immigration to the United States (one proposal would make being present in the U.S. without appropriate legal documentation a criminal offence). Presenter Robin Lustig, in an interview on the BBC's programme 'The World Tonight' on BBC Radio 4, said to King that, in his view, "the US economy simply couldn't function without" the presence of illegal immigrants. King said that he rejected that attitude "categorically". He said "they", referring to the 77.5 million over-16 year-olds in the United States who are not part of the workforce "could be put to work and we could invent machines to replace the rest." [citation needed]

However he acknowledged that it was probably politically impractical to deport the estimated 11-12 million illegal immigrants if the new immigration legislation was passed. [citation needed] King is said by his supporters to have a "no non-sense" style of debating and in the same interview he said that "members of Congress that vote for a guest-worker plan . . . will be supporting an amnesty plan and they should be branded with the scarlett letter 'A' and pay for that amnesty in the ballot box in November (when Congressional elections take place)".

On April 27, 2006, the Des Moines Register published an op-ed piece penned by King regarding the planned May 1st "Day Without an Immigrant" rallies. Critics of King have said this column was "more offensive to them than anything King had said before" (see [4]). King's editorial alleged that there are large numbers of rapes, murders, DUIs, and other assorted crimes that illegal immigrants are responsible for committing in the United States on a daily basis. The editorial has received strong reactions (both for and against) in the Des Moines area, leading to reports on WHO-TV that some local political leaders have denounced King for writing it. In other speeches, King has cited an April 2005 GAO report ([5]) as the source of the statistics in his editorial, but close examination of the numbers in that GAO report reveals that they actually contradict King's statements.

A September 6, 2006 Wall Street Journal article quoted King as regularly accusing illegal immigrants of perpetrating sex crimes against "eight little girls" each day as part of a "slow-motion terrorist attack." ([6])

[PETA]

I fucking hate it when articles rely on terrible fact checking and hate it even worse when I don't even bother to think about it. The problem is that the principle that is being argued - that illegals commit a lot of crime and that can be lessened by lessening the number of illegals - is sound. There is no need to spout bogus fact to support the argument.

[joe mac]

Originally Posted by xian

The problem is that the principle that is being argued - that illegals commit a lot of crime and that can be lessened by lessening the number of illegals - is sound.

not true, you need to approach U.S. led neoliberal model, which you know nothing about.

[Adam D]

Originally Posted by joe mac

not true, you need to approach U.S. led neoliberal model, which you know nothing about.

I'm no fan of the neoliberal system myself, but not all arguments need to come back to that.

[PETA]

Originally Posted by joe mac

not true, you need to approach U.S. led neoliberal model, which you know nothing about.

Just so I understand - you're asserting that illegal immigration and the crimes committed by illegals in the US is a result of the US led neoliberal model?

I'll give you with no argument that the majority of Central and South America is governed by cluster-fuck governments. I'll give you that US involvement with (and support of) strong men such as Pinochet was bad policy (though you'd have a tough row to how in arguing that Allende was a saint or savior). However, states with a closer working relationship with the US tend to be in better shape than those with distant and oppositional relationships.

Illegals come here because there home states suck in terms of opportunity, liberty and standard of living. That's not really debateable.

Are you asserting that but for a neoliberal model that those states would not suck in terms of opportunity, liberty and standard of living?



Anyway - to address your specific assertion - Go ahead and make your case then that the US neoliberal model (and it isn't a US model it is a Western model - if you mean specifically the United States' take on it - then explain specifically how you are defining the term and distinguish it from the Brits etc) causes illegals to come to the US and commit crimes - convince me.

[joe mac]

Originally Posted by xian

Just so I understand - you're asserting that illegal immigration committed by illegals in the US is a result of the US led neoliberal model?

that is correct.

and they are undocumented, not illegal.

[joe mac]

Originally Posted by xian

Anyway - to address your specific assertion - Go ahead and make your case then that the US neoliberal model (and it isn't a US model it is a Western model - if you mean specifically the United States' take on it - then explain specifically how you are defining the term and distinguish it from the Brits etc) causes illegals to come to the US and commit crimes - convince me.

well when the IMF, world bank, etc are controlled by the U.S. ...

[joe mac]

Originally Posted by Adam D

I'm no fan of the neoliberal system myself, but not all arguments need to come back to that.

well when you look at the millions of unodocumented migrants who have crossed the U.S.-Mexico border.

hundreds of thousands dead on the U.S-Mexico border.

Ecuador, Nicaragua, Venezuela, Bolivia, Brazil, Uruguay, Chile all democratically elect center-left/socialist governments because they are tired of the "current model" aka neoliberalism.

in some ways it does.

[PETA]

Originally Posted by joe mac

that is correct.

and they are undocumented, not illegal.

1) if that is your assertion then offer your evidence as to why it is true - a claim is no more than a claim.

2) if aliens are undocumented they are illegal by definition - it is a bit silly for you to keep ednying the obvious and I'm going to correct your error every time so can we accept it as read that you think illegal aliens aren't illegal aliens and the law diagrees as therefore you needn't keep saying such silly things and I needn't keep correcting you?

Originally Posted by joe mac

well when the IMF, world bank, etc are controlled by the U.S. ...

1) demonstrate how the world bank is controlled by the US

2) demonstate why that is a bad thing

Presuming you demonstrate 1 & 2

A) Why is it a bad thing?

B) If the World Bank is a nasty thing that ruins developing countries and this is understood - why do these developing states keep taking world bank money? No one is forcing any other state to take a loan.

if it is a bad thing... then how is that bad thing evidence supporting your claim that neoliberlaism is the cause of crime committed by illegal aliens in the US? Because I think you're reaching awfully deep in that claim.




I'm showing you the respect of taking you seriously and listening to you make your case - please reciprocate and don't make me keep outlining your argument for you - you've made an assertion - you make your case - so far all you've done is drop flippant remarks that evidence nothing in and of themselves.