Venezuela’s Presidential Elections: Will the Opposition Accept the Results?

[joe mac]

Originally Posted by I AM EL-NINO

First of all it aint your military.Second, we'll disarm when we dont feel threatened anymore.Third, we are having dialog with the N.Koreans right now as we speak without any soldiers being deployed.Fourth, I dont know where you get the info you do but its seriously flawed as well as your thinking. The poor are hardly the ones fighting any wars for the U.S. dumbass. And its a volunteer army. So once again your petty remarks hold zero water. And just what is an "elite" war?Fifth, who are you getting these talking points from? This all sounds so scripted like its been practiced in a class or something.

quick to name call, but slow to use the brain... as always.

when we feel threatened? hehe, what about others feeling threatened by the U.S. ?

right, so if we don't deploy our military, we deploy sanctions that do nothing but make the poor poorer, kind of like cuba.

do you actually think people would consider the military, if instead we used the funding for education?

an elite war could be any, some, or all of the 'wars' the U.S. has engaged in.

and all your rhetoric sounds like you copied it from the fox news report, i.e. bill o'reilly.

[joe mac]

Originally Posted by molecule

Members of Chavez's own military organized that coup. They came here and asked for our help, and we refused, but stood by and watched it happen, because we obviously would rather deal with a rational leader in Ven than one who has so blatantly abused power. Your accusations that the CIA had involvment in the 2002 coup is a conspiracy theory at best. Even if we did give our wink and a nod to the coup attempt, thats a far cry from a military invasion. Chavez is harboring Columbian Guerilla's, Muslim Extremist Terrorist and training camps (Margarita Island), made visits to Saddam, Iran, Gaddafi in Lybia, has befriended every single foe of the US, and is a card carrying socialist/communist. We have every damn right and reason to keep a close eye on him. If NK, or anyone else arms him with nukes or long range missles, you can bet your ass we will take care of him.

you are misinformed, due to the information freedom act
there have been files that the U.S. helped with the coup
come back when you have your facts straight.

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q...inst+venezuela

do yourself a favor and please research outside, independent information other than the state deparment, fox news, or any private media in venezuela/USA

[joe mac]

Originally Posted by xian

I've never been to the sun but I can be reasonably certain that it is fucking hot there. Venezuela is even closer and real people exist there who can actually talk and write. That being the case people who've never been there can have expereinces in Venezuela described to them by those who have been there.

As for the media - yeah right - that's why Chavez is routinely criticized for his cracking down on freedom of expression (press, speach, association) and the lawyers who defend those people who dare to speak their minds

if that is the case, why are the majority of tv stations privately owned?

[PETA]

Originally Posted by joe mac

if that is the case, why are the majority of tv stations privately owned?

Presuming for the sake of argument that most TV stations are privately owned we can say so fucking what - Chavez has been harshly criticized for criminalizing content not ownership

Which means it is fine for joe mac to own the Venezuelan Daily but he better not call Chazez a despot or he'll wind up in irons.

[joe mac]

Originally Posted by xian

Presuming for the sake of argument that most TV stations are privately owned we can say so fucking what - Chavez has been harshly criticized for criminalizing content not ownership

Which means it is fine for joe mac to own the Venezuelan Daily but he better not call Chazez a despot or he'll wind up in irons.

again, it only shows you know nothing about venezuela when you say 'for arguments sake'
when it is actually a fact.

did chavez ever do a witch hunt for the CIA sponsored coup in 2002 or the venezuelans?
no
please google, and buy, "the revolution will not be televised" done by 2 irish film makers who were in the miraflores palace at the time it happened, the coup that is.

then google "llaguno bridge"
describing the llaguno bridge incident

but hey, you have obviously heard of those right ..since.. you have been to venezuela, talked to venezuelans, read their constitution, and....

[PETA]

Originally Posted by joe mac

again, it only shows you know nothing about venezuela when you say 'for arguments sake'
when it is actually a fact.

did chavez ever do a witch hunt for the CIA sponsored coup in 2002 or the venezuelans?
no
please google, and buy, "the revolution will not be televised" done by 2 irish film makers who were in the miraflores palace at the time it happened, the coup that is.

then google "llaguno bridge"
describing the llaguno bridge incident

but hey, you have obviously heard of those right ..since.. you have been to venezuela, talked to venezuelans, read their constitution, and....

now you're just recycling previously cut and pasted answers

[joe mac]

Originally Posted by xian

now you're just recycling previously cut and pasted answers

just accept it, U.S. imperialism is over
no more unilateral crap.

down with U.S. hegemony!

[PETA]

haha - workers of the world untie!

[molecule]

Originally Posted by joe mac

you are misinformed, due to the information freedom act
there have been files that the U.S. helped with the coup
come back when you have your facts straight.

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q...inst+venezuela

do yourself a favor and please research outside, independent information other than the state deparment, fox news, or any private media in venezuela/USA

Joe, I am aware that you read on your leftist websites that the US had tactical involvment in the coup. I know who Eva Golinger is, blah, blah. I already stated that the US knew about the possible coup attempt, but the documents don't prove any involvment. We get inside info on all sorts of these kinds of things. Chavez's accusations that the US had involvment are just that. Its also documented that the US told Chavez about possible attempts, made multiple statements denouncing coup attempts, and Chavez said he was not worried about it, and shrugged it off. You beleive what you want to beleive.

[joe mac]

Originally Posted by molecule

Joe, I am aware that you read on your leftist websites that the US had tactical involvment in the coup. I know who Eva Golinger is, blah, blah. I already stated that the US knew about the possible coup attempt, but the documents don't prove any involvment. We get inside info on all sorts of these kinds of things. Chavez's accusations that the US had involvment are just that. Its also documented that the US told Chavez about possible attempts, made multiple statements denouncing coup attempts, and Chavez said he was not worried about it, and shrugged it off. You beleive what you want to beleive.

actually i wouldn't consider the CIA information[freedom of information act], leftist to any extent.

actually the documents prove that the U.S. supported, funded, and helped organize the coup.

the U.S. funds SUMATE, the opposition group.

i bet you'll also say that the U.S. didn't help with the coup's in paraguay, dominican republic, chile, guatemala, etc.
haha

[molecule]

Originally Posted by joe mac

actually i wouldn't consider the CIA information[freedom of information act], leftist to any extent.

actually the documents prove that the U.S. supported, funded, and helped organize the coup.

the U.S. funds SUMATE, the opposition group.

Read the documents. Don't just swallow the bullshit. The documents only prove knowledge of, not participation in. As far as funding, we fund all sorts of opposition groups against totalitarianism, as well we should. Your leftist websites have run wild and claimed all sorts of shit while the documents that were released tell very little. I can't even believe I had to restate this. This is exactly what my last post said that you quoted but didn't even comprehend. READ, COMPREHEND, LEARN HOW TO DEBATE INTELLEGENTLY. Shall I post up the documents that were released to prove your misguidence? Or can you google this? Provide CIA documents that prove involvment and I will conceed that the US had invovlment, because I honsetly hope that they did But all the documents that I have read that have been plastered about by your own Chavista websites do not prove involvment in the coup, even though, their commentary reads as if they do. All other reports on the issue by more repudable media organizations (New York Times, etc) also reveal the documents, and report that the documents show "US knowlege of" but did NOT prove "US involvment." Go to Eva Bolinger's website (the lawyer who filled the informations act release) read the documents she had released, then try to match up her claims and the documents actual words. Its laughable the conclusions she derives from the documents.

Originally Posted by joe mac

i bet you'll also say that the U.S. didn't help with the coup's in paraguay, dominican republic, chile, guatemala, etc.
haha

Not at all what we were discussing. Please try to stay on topic. We have a well known history of taking sides, helping people who come to us for help, and yes, contraversially, helping in coups. Coups in latin America are common place, right or wrong, and definatly were not an invention of the US. Shall I go down the list of loved and praised Leftist Revolutionary leaders who have orgainzed coups?

[I AM EL-NINO]

Originally Posted by joe mac

quick to name call, but slow to use the brain... as always.

when we feel threatened? hehe, what about others feeling threatened by the U.S. ?

right, so if we don't deploy our military, we deploy sanctions that do nothing but make the poor poorer, kind of like cuba.

do you actually think people would consider the military, if instead we used the funding for education?

an elite war could be any, some, or all of the 'wars' the U.S. has engaged in.

and all your rhetoric sounds like you copied it from the fox news report, i.e. bill o'reilly.

No Joe Quack your wrong.You have ABSOLUTLY NO ONE TAKING YOUR SIDE HERE AND YOU INSTEAD INSIST THAT EVERYONE ELSE IS WRONG BUT YOU. You sound like my Mom for Christ sake. Never listening to others and you always have to be right even when proven wrong on all counts. Is this that important to you that you have to ignore anyone else telling you your wrong? Could it also be possible that you might be just mis-guided? If the whole group is telling you your wrong then dont you think you might step back and go "damn....these folks might just be right"? If not then YES SIR, YOU ARE A DUMBASS. You know why? Cause thats how dumbass's act. Your the epitomy of one dont you understand? Oh and ....just to show you once again how misinformed you are....Iv never watched Bill O'Rielly and I only watch FOX for Football DUMBASS! You have no idea what an elite war is and never will. Your mentality wont/cant handle it or any other sane ideology. And...one more thing dumbass. I got my education from the Army (GED) and then went on to college on a good portion of thier money. Dumbass! People dont consider any of the crap you mention when enlisting. My homeboy up there in Dallas went into the Army, served couragously in Bosnia 18 months ago and his parents make well over 400,000 a year. You see we are not forced to do any of the shit you have been assuming. Its got nothing to do with being poor or wealthy. Its called pride in ones self. The ability to give up your life as you know it for someone else in the name of humanity. Something you and your kind know nothing about and are jealous of the fact that we can embrace it and you cant. You only look at it as some kind of neo-liberal (whatever the hell that means and Im sure you cant explain it) takeover. So look, take your crap back to whatever group will embrace it. You've guessed wrong about this group as well as the last one you got pawned with. So leave, before I make a motion to have you banned.

[joe mac]

Originally Posted by xian

Presuming for the sake of argument that most TV stations are privately owned we can say so fucking what - Chavez has been harshly criticized for criminalizing content not ownership

Which means it is fine for joe mac to own the Venezuelan Daily but he better not call Chazez a despot or he'll wind up in irons.

again, someone who has never been to venezuela yet doesn't know what he's talking about.

if that were the case a majority of all tv stations would be in jail.

[joe mac]

Originally Posted by I AM EL-NINO

No Joe Quack your wrong.You have ABSOLUTLY NO ONE TAKING YOUR SIDE HERE AND YOU INSTEAD INSIST THAT EVERYONE ELSE IS WRONG BUT YOU.

well i am posting on a conservative site.

no?

[joe mac]

Originally Posted by I AM EL-NINO

Is this that important to you that you have to ignore anyone else telling you your wrong? Could it also be possible that you might be just mis-guided? If the whole group is telling you your wrong then dont you think you might step back and go "damn....these folks might just be right"?

i'm wrong,
then why has 60% of latin america and the usa turned the left, via democratic means?