Moscow rejects US sanctions on firms selling weapons to Iran and Venezuela

[joe mac]

Originally Posted by xian

I doubt it - much different culture involved (no Sunni Shiite problems etc)

more importantly, we could toppled him from 50 miles off shore and 1 carrier group

lastly, we've got no reason to do it absent him provoking it

the U.S. has done more provoking in Venezuela, than Venezuela in the U.S.

when was the last time Venezuela backed a coup in the U.S. ?

haha

[joe mac]

Originally Posted by xian

Also, it is often thought that oil producers can just shut off the spigot... most oil producing states are one trick ponies and without oil revenues their economies collapse - ergo - Chavez may hate the US but his revenue comes from American imports... cut that off and he cuts off his own revenue stream. No revenue and no other sources to rely on and his petro-dollar funded welfare state collapses on him.

actually the Venezuelan economy is diversifying right now
when it wasn't doing it before.

[joe mac]

Originally Posted by Porkchop Avenger

What exactly is the US doing to make sure that we retain our global supremacy?

there called ... free trade agreements... kind of like colonialism

[Adam D]

I don't see what's wrong with what Russia did. Venezuela hasn't invaded another country, and even if you despise Chavez and think he's an idiot, I doubt anybody believes he has an interest in attacking another country, knowing the US would be quick to step in. Also, considering he is a huge promoter of regional agreements, I don't see him taking any moves to attack his neighbors. Iran, similarly, has no history of outward aggression and likely would not risk the protection it has under China and Russia. Syria...well, if you're going to talk about them why not also discuss the US and its relationship with Israel and it's occupational roles in Lebanon.

[zerojunkie]

Originally Posted by joe mac

there called ... free trade agreements... kind of like colonialism

uh, no not really like colonialism at all, but at least you didn't call it neo-liberalism again. You finally get tired of trying to explain what was wrong with it or something?

[PETA]

Originally Posted by joe mac

actually the Venezuelan economy is diversifying right now
when it wasn't doing it before.

how so?

What industries would you point to as leading the way in this diversification?

Originally Posted by Adam D

I don't see what's wrong with what Russia did.

Me either... in any legal sense. Though it may be penny wise and pound foolish Russia is in a position where they may well need to mortgage tomorrow in order to eat today.

Originally Posted by Adam D

Venezuela hasn't invaded another country, and even if you despise Chavez and think he's an idiot, I doubt anybody believes he has an interest in attacking another country, knowing the US would be quick to step in.

Probably true. Which makes the jaw wagging stupid on both sides but Chavez gets a lot of political mileage out of it. What mileage can an American get out of yelling at a third world banana republic dictator?

Originally Posted by Adam D

Iran, similarly, has no history of outward aggression

Excepting the 444 days of American hostages held on Iranian soil, their war with Iraq and their well documented support of various terror orgaizations world wide and the activity of their client state Syria in assassinating Lebanese government officials that is huh?

Originally Posted by Adam D

and likely would not risk the protection it has under China and Russia.

Excepting that the prize in Tukmesistan is awfully tempting and seizing the southern edge of that great big desert would secure its north eastern border and probably get some more oil too.... not to mention that the Russians and Persians have no long running bellicose enmity in central asia

Originally Posted by Adam D

Syria...well, if you're going to talk about them why not also discuss the US and its relationship with Israel and it's occupational roles in Lebanon.

because Syria is a criminal state run by a despot and israel is a democracy? You cannot equate as equal Syria and Israel in terms of credibility and legitamacy. Israel would cede land for peace. Syria would not not would Hamas or Hebollah.

[Adam D]

Originally Posted by xian

Excepting the 444 days of American hostages held on Iranian soil, their war with Iraq and their well documented support of various terror orgaizations world wide and the activity of their client state Syria in assassinating Lebanese government officials that is huh?

-it was on their soil
-the war with Iraq was more than simply Iran waking up and deciding it would be neat to invade Iraq, but then again, the US has been part of 2 invasions of Iraq...
-supporting terror organizations isn't the same
-that's Syria, and you know how those silly Syrians are

Excepting that the prize in Tukmesistan is awfully tempting and seizing the southern edge of that great big desert would secure its north eastern border and probably get some more oil too.... not to mention that the Russians and Persians have no long running bellicose enmity in central asia

And I doubt for a second that Iran would be foolish enough to piss off Russia by trying to invade north.

because Syria is a criminal state run by a despot and israel is a democracy? You cannot equate as equal Syria and Israel in terms of credibility and legitamacy. Israel would cede land for peace. Syria would not not would Hamas or Hebollah.

You say potato, I say potato. Neither are good examples of either. In terms of outwardly aggression, Israel leads the pack. Their official foreign policy stance is, "don't fuck with us, we're nuts." Come on.

[PETA]

Originally Posted by Adam D

-it was on their soil

No - the US Embassy is explicitly US Soil

Originally Posted by Adam D

-the war with Iraq was more than simply Iran waking up and deciding it would be neat to invade Iraq, but then again, the US has been part of 2 invasions of Iraq...

OK - We won't count that 10 year war.

Originally Posted by Adam D

-supporting terror organizations isn't the same

I agree - it is something all together more despicable and manifestly cowardly.

Originally Posted by Adam D

-that's Syria, and you know how those silly Syrians are

Yes, bootlicking lackeys to the degenerate Iranian devils

Originally Posted by Adam D

And I doubt for a second that Iran would be foolish enough to piss off Russia by trying to invade north.

Do you really? You think Iran's sabre rattling towards Israel and our ally in the region is worth ignoring too?

Given a choice of enemies who would be easier to fight and which would gain Iran more real benefit? Fighting the US/ISrael and gaining zero territory while suffering tremendous losses to their military rendering them vulnerable or fighting the Turkmen briefly before any Russians could get across the desert and seizing some addt'l oil fields? Recall that we have an Army next door and would likely wink at an invasion of Turkmenistan in exchange for an agreement to leave Iraq alone.

The Russian/Persian feud in the region is hundreds of years old Adam.

Originally Posted by Adam D

You say potato, I say potato. Neither are good examples of either. In terms of outwardly aggression, Israel leads the pack. Their official foreign policy stance is, "don't fuck with us, we're nuts." Come on.

Bullshit. What concessions has any of the other states offered in return for peace? ZERO - NONE - NIENTE - ZIP - NADA - ZILCH

as soon as one of them actually is looking for peace they'll get it - Israel wants it... but you're right - if the guy across the table's position is "Israel has no right to exist" then Israel will fuck them up and has done a pretty good job of it.... well... as long as there has been an Israel. If you're willing to give the guy across the table from you 1/4 of your house for peace and his reposne is, "No, I want it all and you dead." what is your response? Mine would be a shovel to the forehead.... luckily for the Arabs in the region the Israelies have been much more tolerant while watching their children get blown up.

[housefish]

Originally Posted by xian

Any conflict between the US and Venezuela will be one of Chavez' choosing and one where his military will be subject to American target practice. We can all hope for his soldiers' sakes that he never puts them into the field against US Marines and Army soldiers.

Originally Posted by joe mac

riiight

Joe

Are you implying that the Venezuelan military is equal or superior to the US.

[joe mac]

Originally Posted by zerojunkie

uh, no not really like colonialism at all, but at least you didn't call it neo-liberalism again. You finally get tired of trying to explain what was wrong with it or something?

colonialism... neoliberal... free trade markets.. race to the bottom..

pretty much the same thing
try again

[joe mac]

Originally Posted by xian

how so?

What industries would you point to as leading the way in this diversification?
.

agriculture, export and import, tourism, look it up... your a lawyer.

[joe mac]

Originally Posted by housefish

Joe

Are you implying that the Venezuelan military is equal or superior to the US.

no

[joe mac]

what is Puntofijismo?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Puntofijismo

[zerojunkie]

Originally Posted by joe mac

colonialism... neoliberal... free trade markets.. race to the bottom..

pretty much the same thing
try again

If you're going to choose to respond to any of my posts calling your bullshit. You'd better be ready to debate the logic behind your neoliberal, anti-globalization, socialist psychobabble instead of providing lame ass one-liners.

$5 says this post won't get a response that's worth a damn.

[joe mac]

Originally Posted by zerojunkie

If you're going to choose to respond to any of my posts calling your bullshit. You'd better be ready to debate the logic behind your neoliberal, anti-globalization, socialist psychobabble instead of providing lame ass one-liners.

$5 says this post won't get a response that's worth a damn.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Globali...ts_Discontents

interesting read, the book was good... but it wasn't anything i didn't already know about the failed neoliberal model aka the new colonialism that the U.S. has as an economic agenda