Black Presidents BEFORE Obama...

[alvin]

A few of the Presidents in American history were "outed" for their "Negro heritage". Many of their opponents used a "smear campaign" against them claiming "Negro lineage".

http://www.fmuniv.edu/urbanaffairs/T...iles/frame.htm

http://www.stewartsynopsis.com/warre...el_harding.htm

Interesting book on the subject
http://www.amazon.com/Five-Negro-Pre.../dp/0960229485

Happy Black History Month Ya'll...

[PETA]

Originally Posted by alvin

A few of the Presidents in American history were "outed" for their "Negro heritage". Many of their opponents used a "smear campaign" against them claiming "Negro lineage".

http://www.fmuniv.edu/urbanaffairs/T...iles/frame.htm

Alvin, I didn't make it past the 4th slide... that's the biggest bunch of horseshit I've seen you post in a long time. Extraording ary claims... your author offered no evidence of his claims. Love the Andrew Jackson account... Jackson's dad died before he was born, his mother moved to a farm where there were black men... one of these men was his father. That's not logic Alvin, that's not inductive reasoning - that's unreasonable claptrap bullshit.


This is the type of shit that rots your brain - the more outrageous the claim the more you want to believe it. It would seem very likely that the author was relying on old accounts of political rivals used to slander the men at issue. But, presuming the claims all true. Let us presume Jackson, Lincoln etc had black fathers. Let me ask you, So what?

[kalamu]

see, here is xian trying to make an argument where there is none.

"Let me ask you, So what?"

it's not about "so what"... it's Alvin posting some history, stop trying to argue with the man.

[alvin]

Originally Posted by xian

Alvin, I didn't make it past the 4th slide... that's the biggest bunch of horseshit I've seen you post in a long time. Extraording ary claims... your author offered no evidence of his claims. Love the Andrew Jackson account... Jackson's dad died before he was born, his mother moved to a farm where there were black men... one of these men was his father. That's not logic Alvin, that's not inductive reasoning - that's unreasonable claptrap bullshit.


This is the type of shit that rots your brain - the more outrageous the claim the more you want to believe it. It would seem very likely that the author was relying on old accounts of political rivals used to slander the men at issue. But, presuming the claims all true. Let us presume Jackson, Lincoln etc had black fathers. Let me ask you, So what?

Alvin, I didn't make it past the 4th slide

In your RUSH TO JUDGEMENT...

Maybe you should soak in the ENTIRE story before you let your EMOTIONS get the better of you. The 9th slide about sums it up in a nutshell...

http://www.fmuniv.edu/urbanaffairs/T...iles/frame.htm

[alvin]

I believe the President who wasn't identified was Eisenhower...if my memory serves me right it was based on photo's of his mother(grandmother???) who was purported to be of mixed race.

It would be career suicide for these men to come out and claim the "negro" side of their lineage. Being called a "negro"(if you classified yourself as white) back in those days was much like being called a "terrorist" today and many negros "passed" for white to better maneuver through a segregated society.

[alvin]

Here's a little history on Jim Crow America and blacks passing for whites
http://www.jimcrowhistory.org/resour..._for_white.htm

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontl...fferson/mixed/

http://www.backintyme.com/essay050501.htm

[PETA]

Originally Posted by kalamu

it's not about "so what"... it's Alvin posting some history, stop trying to argue with the man.

If it was history he and you may have a point - but it isn't history it is unsupportable assertion with intent...

nice that alvin found a supporter with just as much credibility

Originally Posted by alvin

In your RUSH TO JUDGEMENT...

Maybe you should soak in the ENTIRE story before you let your EMOTIONS get the better of you. The 9th slide about sums it up in a nutshell...

http://www.fmuniv.edu/urbanaffairs/T...iles/frame.htm

How many bites of a shit sandwhich do you need to eat before you call it a shit sandwhich Alvin? Took me four, sadly.

[alvin]

Originally Posted by xian

If it was history he and you may have a point - but it isn't history it is unsupportable assertion with intent...

nice that alvin found a supporter with just as much credibility



How many bites of a shit sandwhich do you need to eat before you call it a shit sandwhich Alvin? Took me four, sadly.

have you read the book "The Five Negro Presidents" by Joel Augustus Rogers? It's obvious someone did some sort of research into the subject and as always it is of YOUR OPINION that the assertion is "unsupportable". This is a bit of little known history and if you want to belief it isn't true fine. It's just like the 9-11 "debate", if someone even bothers to ask a question that threatens the status quo it is attacked as lacking insight and worthiness.

[PETA]

Originally Posted by alvin

have you read the book "The Five Negro Presidents" by Joel Augustus Rogers? It's obvious someone did some sort of research into the subject and as always it is of YOUR OPINION that the assertion is "unsupportable".

I limited my opinion to your first link and the first four pages thereof. The link and those pages are crap.

As for my opinion - I'm going out on a limb here to suggest that my opinion on some one's history research has some weight.

Originally Posted by alvin

This is a bit of little known history and if you want to belief it isn't true fine.

You misunderstood what I said Alvin. I said you first link was crap - it is - the data is garbage. The arguments were so shallow that you'd have a hard time sinking a mosquito beak into one.

Maybe those guys did have African blood in them. If so your link in no way offered a credible reason to believe such an assertion.

Originally Posted by alvin

It's just like the 9-11 "debate", if someone even bothers to ask a question that threatens the status quo it is attacked as lacking insight and worthiness.

I wasn't challenging whether any of those Presidents did or did not have any African blood. I was asserting that there is zero reason to believe such a claim based on the information provided in your first link's first 4 pages. I was saying further that the link you provided was so superficial and poorly argued that it was in essence a shit sandwhich. And no - that's not just nitpicking


And where did that 9-11 thread go anyway?

[alvin]

And where did that 9-11 thread go anyway?

Maybe the author felt that the thread couldn't bear any more "scholarly debate"?

[PETA]

Originally Posted by alvin

Maybe the author felt that the thread couldn't bear any more "scholarly debate"?

I do believe that to be the case

[kalamu]

Originally Posted by xian

nice that alvin found a supporter with just as much credibility

what is so laughable is the fact that you think having credibility with a bunch of ravers is something worth shit in this world. just because you can put together an argument on a messageboard doesn't make you special, it means you have too much free time on your hands. i like Alvin because at least he is out there thinking about things and not just resting on old assumptions.

give me 100 Alvins over 1 of you. you won't ever do anything to make the future better because of your attitude. at least that's the impression i have gotten from you over the years with your posts.

[alvin]

[QUOTE=xian;2649246]

I limited my opinion to your first link and the first four pages thereof. The link and those pages are crap.

As for my opinion - I'm going out on a limb here to suggest that my opinion on some one's history research has some weight.

The first link is from the Florida Memorial University website. The sources cited included FACTS Magazine, the Virginia Magazine of History and the Johnny-Cake Papers.

You misunderstood what I said Alvin. I said you first link was crap - it is - the data is garbage. The arguments were so shallow that you'd have a hard time sinking a mosquito beak into one.

Maybe those guys did have African blood in them. If so your link in no way offered a credible reason to believe such an assertion

. Also the second link sites sources such as an 1850 Census to show Hardings lineage. The website also cites photos of Hardings relatives, an obituary and a marriage certificate.

I wasn't challenging whether any of those Presidents did or did not have any African blood. I was asserting that there is zero reason to believe such a claim based on the information provided in your first link's first 4 pages. I was saying further that the link you provided was so superficial and poorly argued that it was in essence a shit sandwhich. And no - that's not just nitpicking

Which is why I threw in the reference to the J.A. Rogers book "The Five Negro Presidents" for good measure.

What EVIDENCE have you given to counter your claim that the data is "garbage"? Your OPINION just isn't going to cut it. Your opinion that something is garbage in light of the evidence given is like having a scale with a feather on one side and a ingot of gold on the other...it just doesn't balance out.

You just said yourself that maybe these men had African blood in them and than you say the "data" is garbage. The sources are cited and I even gave you a book title to reference.

Maybe we can get the guys who did the hack job on that NIST report to come up with a report that counters the claims that these men had no Black blood.

I can see the results now...

In lieu of the evidence that states otherwise...NIST concludes that there is no evidence of the presence Negro blood in any of the Presidents mentioned BUT NIST never conducted any tests to determine the presence of Negro blood in any of the Presidents mentioned. This NIST report will be distributed to the news outlets who in turn will offer the public "10 second sound bites" of select parts of the results.

[PETA]

Originally Posted by kalamu

what is so laughable is the fact that you think having credibility with a bunch of ravers is something worth shit in this world.

First, I don't think the general group of people I exchange thoughts with here are a bunch of ravers. You're welcome to think of them that way if you wish and those with whom you primarily communicate here may be - but - I tend to have a lot more respect for those whose thoughts I come here to read.

Originally Posted by kalamu

just because you can put together an argument on a messageboard doesn't make you special, it means you have too much free time on your hands.

Sure. And yet you, even with your free time still cannot put together an argument? That does make you special.

Originally Posted by kalamu

i like Alvin because at least he is out there thinking about things and not just resting on old assumptions.

OK - the problem is the conclusions he comes to - not his desire to learn (which I do respect - whether you or he believes it or not)

Originally Posted by kalamu

give me 100 Alvins over 1 of you. you won't ever do anything to make the future better because of your attitude. at least that's the impression i have gotten from you over the years with your posts.

That pretty much sums it up.

Originally Posted by alvin

What EVIDENCE have you given to counter your claim that the data is "garbage"? Your OPINION just isn't going to cut it.

Alvin - I stand by my opinion of that power point mess - it looked like it was written by some grade school kid doing his book report for the semester.

[alvin]

I guess the reporter doesn't have a grasp on history...

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070302/..._the2008_trail

Democrat Barack Obama (news, bio, voting record), who would be the first black president, has white ancestors who owned slaves, according to a genealogical researcher

Funny how the Presidents mentioned were questioned for having BLACK in their family tree, now they are being queried for having WHITE in the family tree....ya gotta love America.