NY Times calls Iraq a 'lost cause'

[Blake]

WASHINGTON (AFP) - The New York Times on Sunday called for US troops to leave Iraq now, saying that President George W. Bush's plan to stabilize the country through military means was a lost cause.

"It is time for the United States to leave Iraq, without any more delay than the Pentagon needs to organize an orderly exit," the influential daily wrote in a rare, single-issue editorial taking up one-half of an entire news page.

"Like many Americans, we have put off that conclusion, waiting for a sign that President Bush was seriously trying to dig the United States out of the disaster he created by invading Iraq without sufficient cause, in the face of global opposition, and without a plan to stabilize the country afterward."

But it has since emerged, the Times concluded, that Bush has "neither the vision nor the means to do that."

"It is frighteningly clear that Mr. Bush's plan is to stay the course as long as he is president and dump the mess on his successor. Whatever his cause was, it is lost," the daily opined.

"Continuing to sacrifice the lives and limbs of American soldiers is wrong. The war is sapping the strength of the nation's alliances and its military forces ... It is a betrayal of a world that needs the wise application of American power and principles."

The editorial concluded: "This country faces a choice. We can go on allowing Mr. Bush to drag out this war without end or purpose. Or we can insist that American troops are withdrawn as quickly and safely as we can manage -- with as much effort as possible to stop the chaos from spreading."

The article by the influential newspaper -- the latest sign of increasing public restiveness on Iraq -- comes as a growing number of Bush's formerly loyal Republican backers on the Iraq question have defected and begun calling for US troop withdrawal.

The Times conceded that, as violent at Iraq is, the situation there might turn even deadlier after a withdrawal of US forces.

Still, the daily wrote: "Americans must be equally honest about the fact that keeping troops in Iraq will only make things worse.

"The nation needs a serious discussion, now, about how to accomplish a withdrawal and meet some of the big challenges that will arise."

The Guardian, a prominent British newspaper, in turn wrote an editorial for its Monday edition touting the Times' stance as a "notable event."

"The Times still remains the premier daily newspaper in American life. Its long editorial yesterday calling for US withdrawal from Iraq is therefore a notable event, both reflecting and shaping a US debate which is now coming to a political climax.

"Recent switches by some Republican senators have helped create a sense of momentum that is reflected in the Times editorial," it said.

"As the Times powerfully argues, withdrawal is no easy option ... We in Britain need to have that debate too -- not to show how disastrous the Iraq war was, but to show how the world can begin to move beyond it."

[Deff Gordon]

you need to link the articles

[Blake]

www.omgAFPnews.com

http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/usiraqme...SZ0yYc_J3MWM0F

[Deff Gordon]

here's the actual editorial:

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/07/08/op...=1&oref=slogin

[Blake]

im sorry my yahoo news/afp news link isn't good for you

[Keith P]

1.Good. I've always like the times and probably always will.
2.They can print whatever the hell they want as long as it remains viable news.
3.This is in the opinion section of the paper so why is it even that big of a deal? It's not a headline story.
4.You can just go walk down a street in New York and hear these sentiments rather than having to read them.

[Darren Afrika-ka-ka]

as sad as it is they right

[-m-]

It's at least a ten year job. We'll end up making things worse I'm sure.

[Keith P]

Originally Posted by -m-

It's at least a ten year job. We'll end up making things worse I'm sure.

They'll more than likely end up with another tyrant in power akin to hussein. When you run a turbulent region like that then you need to have an iron fist.

This is why we are failing in this war. I consider myself pretty damn liberal as well as highly opposed to the war, but I also understand the only way we can win this war is by crushing the entire country under our boot.

If we were ensue an even larger blood bath upon the whole of Iraq and set up complete dominance over their government and people then this we'd probably get somewhere.

[jaesun]

How dare they write their opinions! Where is the Fairness Doctrine?

Iraq's government is failing. I was in support of the war for a long time but my patience is wearing thin. I guess if they can’t help themselves we can’t help them for too much longer in a military sense. I wish I could say we were going to make a positive difference in a short amount of time but Iraqis just don’t seem to be putting in the effort they should be. I wouldn’t say it is a lost cause because Keith P is right. If we cut and run our children will be fighting the same battle but worse in the future. It’s a hard decision to make.

Just like we did in Germany and Japan for years after their wars, we will have to cradle their country for years to come in order to make sure we don’t have another death-hungry dictator to battle in the future.

[Keith P]

Originally Posted by jaesun

How dare they write their opinions! Where is the Fairness Doctrine?

Iraq's government is failing. I was in support of the war for a long time but my patience is wearing thin. I guess if they can’t help themselves we can’t help them for too much longer in a military sense. I wish I could say we were going to make a positive difference in a short amount of time but Iraqis just don’t seem to be putting in the effort they should be. I wouldn’t say it is a lost cause because Keith P is right. If we cut and run our children will be fighting the same battle but worse in the future. It’s a hard decision to make.

Just like we did in Germany and Japan for years after their wars, we will have to cradle their country for years to come in order to make sure we don’t have another death-hungry dictator to battle in the future.

I didn't say anything to that degree. I'm for troop withdrawal. I just stated that the only way to win a war such as this is through sheer brutality. We don't live in the type of society or culture that is willing to accept the true nature of warfare anymore. But Iraqi's do.

[PETA]

Originally Posted by Keith P

I just stated that the only way to win a war such as this is through sheer brutality. We don't live in the type of society or culture that is willing to accept the true nature of warfare anymore.

nail hammer head

[Keith P]

I don't think bringing up ww2 is a fair analogy either. The fate of the western world was up in the air. The free nations of the world knew what they needed to do in that scenario.

Iraq doesn't represent that kind of threat to us. Terrorism in a broad context? yes. Our cause in Afghanistan was truely representative of the war of ideals that is occuring between the west and the east. Would have Iraq come in time? I believe so, but I also believe we would've been psychologically and strategically prepared by that time.

Our real war here should be in cutting ties with nations who uphold the most archaic religious beliefs tied in with extreme Islam. Those ideals are the true threat to American society.

[zerojunkie]

No way, Russia tried that with Afghanistan in the 80's. Talk about driving people to the insurgency, that's the quickest way of doing it. The only ways to win Iraq in my opinion would be to have a much much larger detachment of special forces operating in Iraq in more of a counter-insurgency role, much like they are in Afghanistan...and/or have overwhelming international backing, and specifically more from Arab nations, going in.

[-m-]

Originally Posted by Keith P

I don't think bringing up ww2 is a fair analogy either. The fate of the western world was up in the air. The free nations of the world knew what they needed to do in that scenario.

Iraq doesn't represent that kind of threat to us. Terrorism in a broad context? yes. Our cause in Afghanistan was truely representative of the war of ideals that is occuring between the west and the east. Would have Iraq come in time? I believe so, but I also believe we would've been psychologically and strategically prepared by that time.

Our real war here should be in cutting ties with nations who uphold the most archaic religious beliefs tied in with extreme Islam. Those ideals are the true threat to American society.

I agree. As far as WWII goes we're talking about an entirely different type of war, entirely different set of circumstances surrounding us getting involved, really just an entirely different world. Completely irrelevant to this argument unless you want to use it in the context of it being the last war we absolutely had to fight (imo).

I don't even think that it's a fair statement to say that we'll be fighting "them" here in regards to the terrorists. I do believe that it's likely we will suffer more attacks at the hands of sleeper cells, but there will never be a day when we'll be fighting legions of ski mask clad Arabs in the streets atop technicals brandishing Kalashnikovs, which is the image that I do think the far right politicals are trying to brand into the minds of the average Fox news watching fat rubes who buy into that corny shit. That's just silly.

I hate quoting Maher, because I do believe he's a blowhard who often oversimplifies the issues he talks about, but he put it quite eloquently when he said that the only way the world will get past this is by making young Arab men stop wanting to kills us. Until then terrorism has to be fought like cancer in that it has to be controlled or confined. That's really all we can do. Invading and setting up puppet governments? Well not so much of a good strategy. At best we'll get another despot in control who's friendly to us. Back to square one. Hello and welcome to the 80's, again. And even then, it's a ten year deal to get accomplished imo. It's just too much of a mess over there to think otherwise.