Fair Tax

[reason]

I like it.

Take away my income tax... give me a federal tax on all items.... and then my state and local tax (a total of about 26% - 28% ) since it is comming out of my check anyway. Let my spending habits disctate my taxation, not my income.

I am sure some of you would hat this because it causes people getting paid under the table to take a cut..... but i think this is a great idea.


here is a reference if you are not familiar

http://www.fairtax.org/site/PageServer

[Nyteshade]

It wouldn't be a "fair" tax because people with lower incomes tend to spend a much larger portion of their salaries buying necessities than rich people.

Example:

Say I have a family of 4 and make $50,000 a year. My next door neighbor has a family of four and makes $100,000 a year. We both spend $100 a week on groceries which would translate to $25 a week (assuming a 25% tax rate) in tax money. That $25 a week is a much more money to me than it is to him.

[PETA]

its "fair" in that everyone pays the same rate

further, iirc, there's an annual rebate with most proposals that is supposed to cover necessities... a kind of annual grocery bill which is intended to eliminate the regressive issue you raise

I don't support it because I suspect that we'll just get a national sales tax.... in addition to our income tax

[Nyteshade]

Originally Posted by xian

its "fair" in that everyone pays the same rate

If only people paid the same % of their money to get things though which what really tips the scales.

further, iirc, there's an annual rebate with most proposals that is supposed to cover necessities... a kind of annual grocery bill which is intended to eliminate the regressive issue you raise

Then we get to the issue of clothing, utilities, housing, and all other manner of things normally bought by everyone. Not to mention the complete loss of dependant deductions which brings me to another point:

I have a son so not only do I already have more expenses to support him, I now have to pay more in taxes to be able to support him.

Rich bachelors would love the government forever if this type of tax was ever implemented.

[PETA]

Originally Posted by Nyteshade

If only people paid the same % of their money to get things though which what really tips the scales.



Then we get to the issue of clothing, utilities, housing, and all other manner of things normally bought by everyone. Not to mention the complete loss of dependant deductions which brings me to another point:

I have a son so not only do I already have more expenses to support him, I now have to pay more in taxes to be able to support him.

agreed... in addition you own a home... you'd lose your mortgage interest deduction as well as your dependant deduction ... etc etc etc. This thing has problems all over it... even if, in the abstract notion, it sounds like a good idea.

[zcwilly]

All I know is, now that I own my business, I have to pay all kinds of state franchise tax based on my total revenue, NOT profit... it is fucking sickening.

[reason]

Originally Posted by Nyteshade

Then we get to the issue of clothing, utilities, housing, and all other manner of things normally bought by everyone. Not to mention the complete loss of dependant deductions which brings me to another point:

I have a son so not only do I already have more expenses to support him, I now have to pay more in taxes to be able to support him.

i would like to see neccessies tax free - foods, basic utilities

i didnt think about the deduction for children.... and embarrasingly... i didnt think about those with low income (other than the food and utilities)

[BigBallinColin]

if it was properly thought out and the poor were looked after for once then I would consider it. it would help illegal immigrants say they were paying their part though, and get rid of the irs which is a good thing too

[Nyteshade]

Originally Posted by reason

i would like to see neccessies tax free - foods, basic utilities

Except in our current system, the basics aren't free. We pay for food, utilities, etc. with what's left over after income taxes. And if they were made free, what would be subject to the tax? You'd have to create a whole administration just to determine what is and isn't subject to the tax.

[reason]

just as basic foods are not taxed... basic services could be exempt as well..... water, electricity, basic phone service, natural gas. I can think of anything else that would be needed. gas would be out of the question i'm sure

[PETA]

Originally Posted by reason

just as basic foods are not taxed... basic services could be exempt as well..... water, electricity, basic phone service, natural gas. I can think of anything else that would be needed. gas would be out of the question i'm sure

right, but now, as Patrick noted, you're reaccumulating the complicated tax code and necessitating a new agency like the IRS to determine what's taxable, how much, when and to whom....

[Nyteshade]

Originally Posted by reason

just as basic foods are not taxed... basic services could be exempt as well..... water, electricity, basic phone service, natural gas. I can think of anything else that would be needed. gas would be out of the question i'm sure

Basic foods are not subject to STATE sales tax but we currently pay for it from our post-income tax dollars. There is a huge difference in the way state and federal taxes works and there's no guarantee that the US government is going to just decide, "Well it's not taxed by the state so we won't tax it either."

[reason]

Originally Posted by Nyteshade

Basic foods are not subject to STATE sales tax but we currently pay for it from our post-income tax dollars. There is a huge difference in the way state and federal taxes works and there's no guarantee that the US government is going to just decide, "Well it's not taxed by the state so we won't tax it either."

sure.... sure.... i am with you now - again, i am embarrassed that i did not take this into consideration

Originally Posted by xian

right, but now, as Patrick noted, you're reaccumulating the complicated tax code and necessitating a new agency like the IRS to determine what's taxable, how much, when and to whom....

noted ...... but would that be plausable? Could the IRS change roles, and if so, would it make the tax process more resonable than current ?

[PETA]

Originally Posted by reason

noted ...... but would that be plausable? Could the IRS change roles, and if so, would it make the tax process more resonable than current ?

the IRC is the most byzantine morass of stupidity I've ever had the misfortune to look into.... that being said, its a a product of many years of patches to encourage this or discourgae that use of dollars. Its a useful tool to tinker with the economy to shift dollars into or out of a sector etc etc. My frustrated opinion is that I prefer the devil I know.... though I'm am not at all fond of him.

[transplant]

What about a flat tax rate? What are your views?