61% of historians disagree with xian

[Dionysos]

http://www.usnews.com/articles/news/...h-on-bush.html

President Bush often argues that history will vindicate him. So he can't be pleased with an informal survey of 109 professional historians conducted by the History News Network. It found that 98 percent of them believe that Bush's presidency has been a failure, while only about 2 percent see it as a success. Not only that, more than 61 percent of the historians say the current presidency is the worst in American history. In 2004, only 11.6 percent of the historians rated Bush's presidency in last place. Among the reasons given for his low ratings: invading Iraq, "tax breaks for the rich," and alienating many nations around the world. Bush supporters counter that professional historians today tend to be liberal and that it's too early to assess how his policies will turn out.

[umalak_]

I think had they had a reasonable plan for the reconstruction of Iraq and had that entire thing not been the giant fuckup that it was that the American people by-and-large would've forgotten about the fact that his administration lied to us about it in the beginning... but because it was a giant fuckup we will always be reminded about the lies. History will not look favorably upon Bush. The war is still going on and there are countless books, essays, documentaries, etc out pointing out what a collossal fuckup it was... it's not going to get better in the future.

[Damnsammit]

Bush supporters counter that professional historians today tend to be liberal and that it's too early to assess how his policies will turn out.

While I doubt he will be ranked far from the bottom, even in the next 40 years, these
are valid points for the present date.

[J. Fees]

he's pretty much been a fuck up his whole life, the presidency was just another feather in his loser hat.

[Ash]

I wonder what Chemistry professors think about him.

[-m-]

I want a loser hat to put feathers in.

[Damnsammit]

Originally Posted by Ash

I wonder what Chemistry professors think about him.

They are atheists and do not care.

[PETA]

Originally Posted by Dionysos

http://www.usnews.com/articles/news/...h-on-bush.html

lol - historians casting opinions about the Bush Presidency prior to him even leaving office are not expessing historical opinions but political opinions.

Lets see what they say in twenty years.

Fact is, if Afganistan and Iraq come around he could be regarded very kindly by history and if they go south... very poorly.

However, it is far too early to tell. These "historians" ranking GW as they are are an affront to their discipline and should be fired.

[J. Fees]

Originally Posted by -m-

I want a loser hat to put feathers in.

fuck up at yale, next dodge the draft(and never go to the reserves), then fuck up at the oil biz, then buy the Rangers(thats just being a total loser by association if anything), then run the country's economy into the ground by going to war under completely false pretenses, and you to can have a 10 gallon hat made entirely of loser.

[High Maintenance (4peace)]

Originally Posted by J. Feez

fuck up at yale, next dodge the draft(and never go to the reserves), then fuck up at the oil biz, then buy the Rangers(thats just being a total loser by association if anything), then run the country's economy into the ground by going to war under completely false pretenses, and you to can have a 10 gallon hat made entirely of loser.

Don't forget his keen grasp of the english language. *hands feez another feather*

[umalak_]

Originally Posted by xian

Fact is, if Afganistan and Iraq come around he could be regarded very kindly by history and if they go south... very poorly.

i disagree

if Bin Laden and AQ continue to do what they do - Bush will go down, and rightly so, in history as the guy who didn't do what he should've to go after them

Iraq will not come around anytime soon so Bush will always be the guy who fucked up by going in there. The critical first year after the war is already in the past and he fucked it up (well, he appointed the guy who fucked it up and allowed it to happen) so that bit of history is already written. You are talking about historical opinions, not history itself because if it happened yesterday then the history is already written.

Xian is never wrong. His opinion supercedes that of any so-called "experts." I thought you were aware of this.

[PETA]

Originally Posted by umalak_

i disagree

if Bin Laden and AQ continue to do what they do - Bush will go down, and rightly so, in history as the guy who didn't do what he should've to go after them

Iraq will not come around anytime soon so Bush will always be the guy who fucked up by going in there. The critical first year after the war is already in the past and he fucked it up (well, he appointed the guy who fucked it up and allowed it to happen) so that bit of history is already written. You are talking about historical opinions, not history itself because if it happened yesterday then the history is already written.

You said little different from what I did... and regarding yesterday as "history" for purposes of academic historians is just stupid... yesterday may be in the past but there is minute and meaningless perspective

Since GW started his anti-terror policy OBL has been hiding in a cave and it has been decimated worldwide...

If Iraq and or Afganistan turns out like Korea or Germany or Japan GW will be regard as a visionary even if the early years were a struggle... if it turns into Somalia he'll be regarded as an idiot. The reality will probably be in between... but that is for historians to decide when there is historical perspective... that GW is still in office is hardly historical perspective...

anyway - like I said... his legacy will be determined by events that are a long time from being settled...


and Feezy... does GW get credit for getting us out of the slump at the end of the Clinton years and the strong economy up until recently then? If so fixing a bad economy and then giving 6 years of a strong economy would seem a pretty good record... imo he gets neither credit nor blame for either.... generally POTUS should just get the hell out of the way (imo)

Originally Posted by TragicallyUnhip

Xian is never wrong. His opinion supercedes that of any so-called "experts." I thought you were aware of this.

my complaint is that historians ranking a President's legacy while he's still in office is anything but a reliable academic historian's opinion... its a valid current political opinion... they are different things

[J. Fees]

If Iraq and or Afganistan turns out like Korea or Germany or Japan GW will be regard as a visionary even if the early years were a struggle.

this is ridiculous.

[PETA]

Originally Posted by J. Feez

this is ridiculous.

Feez.. what I am doing is setting two extremes in order to demonstrate a point. Yes, it would be absurd to think Iraq will be like Korea, Japan or Germany in a couple years. It would be ridiculous to consider GW a visionary as well. However, it is too early to determine his legacy a failure because he doesn't even have a legacy yet.