why you don't need vaccines......

[reason]

yes damnit.... i said it

hate me if you will, but at least look at the facts:

here is a non-biased poll from a thread on a major national mother/child health magazine's website...

http://www.babycenter.com/viewPollRe...m?pollId=76703

"Has your child ever had a reaction to a vaccination?
82% Yes
18% No "


out of that - 41% is fever.... which is one of the most dangerous things for an infant.


and if you don't care about those numbers.... look at these...

http://www.vaclib.org/intro/present/index2.htm

it is important to note that the fall in scarlet fever mimicked that of the other major illnesses... yet there was never a vaccine created for it.

the fact is that these illnesses were on an impressive decline BEFORE the vaccinations were created.

i am not saying vaccinations are bad - all i am saying is, that until you get the mercury out of them - and make them safer - what is the REAL point of having them.

i mean... if your kid has an 80% chance of a reaction .... how does that outway the 2% chance it will get polio?

[Nyteshade]

The only reason the chance to catch diseases like polio, small pox, etc is so small, is because vaccines have removed the primary place for those bacteria to live. I'm sorry but I'll go with an 80% chance of a mild reaction compared to a 2% chance of a potentially deadly disease


And lol at 18% of the reactions to vaccines being "excessive crying."

[Nyteshade]

In response to your second article, it seems to only show number of deaths on the decline before vaccinations were developed. Vaccines were made to PREVENT the disease to begin with so instead of showing graphs that demonstrate fatality rate, you should be showing graphs that display the rate at which the disease was contracted to begin with.

http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vac-gen/..._incidence.gif


Amazing!! The number of people who contracted the measles after the vaccine was introduced plummeted almost immediately! Obviously, the vaccine had nothing to do with that.

[Damnsammit]

I like Hep A and B.

I hope they never have a vaccine for Hep C... because one day I will have them all.

[reason]

i'm definately not saying they don't work

hell ... i think they are a testament to the advancements in biology... i mean, we are controling living organisms here

my problem is that they are propagated to have eradicated the illnesses by themselves... this data shows that our improvements in living standards made the wave of thier decline prevelant.... and then we came in at the end and blew it out of the water ...
furthermore - why do they have to pump them with fillers that harm the human body? honestly.. why?

for me the debate is personal as there are four children in my imediate family that had sever reactions including seizures and speech impediment

again - i love the vaccines.. but they are not being produced in a way that is more valuable than the chances of catching the illness that they prevent.

if i am jumping out of a plane... i want a parachute - but not if it is attached to my neck

[reason]

Originally Posted by Damnsammit

I like Hep A and B.

I hope they never have a vaccine for Hep C... because one day I will have them all.

keep drinking brotha ... you'll get there... i know you will

[Damnsammit]

Originally Posted by reason

for me the debate is personal as there are four children in my imediate family that had sever reactions including seizures and speech impediment

again - i love the vaccines.. but they are not being produced in a way that is more valuable than the chances of catching the illness that they prevent.

if i am jumping out of a plane... i want a parachute - but not if it is attached to my neck

There is currently research going on trying to show the link to Autism and vaccines. I think it is interesting to see since Autism wasn't nearly as prevalent as it is now, and the rise in vaccinations is definitely notable.

However, I think babies are given immunizations too early. I don't feel comfortable giving a newborn baby all sorts of shots to help prevent something that they have little chance of being exposed to. For the most part an infant and even a toddler lives their live in solitude at the home or with family members. Usually these environments are clean and the child should not be susceptible to disease as much.

When they start school at 4 years of age, it is a much larger concern as there is a whole plethora of bacteria and germs that they will encounter making illness more prevalent.

Immunizations? Yes please, but maybe start them a little bit later in early childhood.

[MC Twinkie]

You're right, TB is good for you. Make sure you get the kind that is resistant to antibiotics. I hear the last guy that got that strain was locked up in a room and all his sheets and trash are burned. He has no human contact and no internet acces.

[Nyteshade]

Originally Posted by reason

i'm definately not saying they don't work

hell ... i think they are a testament to the advancements in biology... i mean, we are controling living organisms here

my problem is that they are propagated to have eradicated the illnesses by themselves... this data shows that our improvements in living standards made the wave of thier decline prevelant.... and then we came in at the end and blew it out of the water ...

It's possible, hell probable that humans were able to become somewhat resistant to those diseases after hundreds of years of being exposed to them. This would explain why they became less and less likely to actually kill us but that didn't stop the number of cases contracted. The vaccinations do still work.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Measles

Unvaccinated populations are at risk for the disease. After vaccination rates dropped in northern Nigeria in the early 2000s due to religious and political objections, the number of cases rose significantly, and hundreds of children died.[6] A 2005 measles outbreak in Indiana was attributed to children whose parents refused vaccination.[7] In the early 2000s the MMR vaccine controversy in the United Kingdom regarding a potential link between the combined MMR vaccine (vaccinating children from mumps, measles and rubella) and autism prompted a comeback in the measles party, where parents deliberately infect the child with measles to build up the child's immunity without an injection. This practice poses many health risks to the child, and has been discouraged by the public health authorities.[8] Scientific evidence provides no support for the hypothesis that MMR plays a role in causing autism.[9] Declining immunisation rates in the UK are the probable cause of a significant increase of cases of measles, 2006 being the highest on record, and 2007 already showing an increase on the previous year.[10]

According to the World Health Organization (WHO), measles is a leading cause of vaccine preventable childhood mortality. Worldwide, the fatality rate has been significantly reduced by partners in the Measles Initiative: the American Red Cross, the United States Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC), the United Nations Foundation, UNICEF and the World Health Organization (WHO). Globally, measles deaths are down 60 percent, from an estimated 873,000 deaths in 1999 to 345,000 in 2005. Africa has seen the most success, with annual measles deaths falling by 75 percent in just 5 years, from an estimated 506,000 to 126,000.[11]

furthermore - why do they have to pump them with fillers that harm the human body? honestly.. why?

Because dead and near dead bacteria (which is what vaccines are made of) would be highly likely to break down so preservatives must be used to make sure they stay good. It's the same reason preservatives exist in foods.

for me the debate is personal as there are four children in my imediate family that had sever reactions including seizures and speech impediment

And you're absolutely sure this is because of vaccinations? What in any vaccines cause seizures and speech impediment in a single family? Given that it's all in one family, it may be something genetic.

[PETA]

Originally Posted by Nyteshade

It's possible, hell probable that humans were able to become somewhat resistant to those diseases after hundreds of years of being exposed to them. This would explain why they became less and less likely to actually kill us but that didn't stop the number of cases contracted. The vaccinations do still work.

Just a biological imperative coupled with evolutionary principles but it is in the best long term interests of disease organisms not to be lethal. Diseases, when they emerge tend to be at their deadliest. We have few immunities and are less prepared to deal with them for one reason. However, these diseases generally evolve into less lethal forms. They do so because dead victims spread diseases less than live ones. The longer the host lives the greater the chances that the disease can spread thus ensuring long term survival of the species.

[MC Twinkie]

I'm going to pull a xian here and say,"boohoo, stop whinning!" God doesn't owe you autistic free children or a life without disease. Pay taxes, and die.

I think one thing you have to realize is that there was probably a time where things like autism were medically called, "dumby." That word started out as a medical word. We had sanitariums back in the old days. Its probably not that there was a lesser previlance, but that those people died or were put into sanitariums and not diagnosed.

[C-fer]

Originally Posted by reason

"Has your child ever had a reaction to a vaccination?
82% Yes
18% No "

Correlation doesn't always mean causation. When kids go to get vaccinated, they are usually in a waiting room with other kids, playing, crawling, touching toys other kids have touched, etc. Who's to say the vaccination caused the reaction?
Vaccines are dead viruses if I'm not mistaken, and while there is a chance to have a mild reaction, it's very small.

As for the mercury in the vaccines, I agree, they should find a better, safer substitute. What is the actual amount of mercury in a vaccine? Is it in all vaccines or just some?

[roughrider]

Ya'll are all stupid. I am a nurse in the neonatal intensive care unit. If are babies did not have vaccinces they would die, is that what u want.....?????? Ignorance is not blice!!!! Give it up. this is not the 18th century. If you don't want ur own bay to have vaccines then don't get it, but when they die I won't cry for u, loser!!!!

[hepkatmama]

lets see an 80% chance of a fever or catching the plague. hmmmm, i'll bring some tylenol.

(but screw the flu vaccine, it is just breeding superviruses. the flu hasn't been pinned down. this vaccine is importing strains of flus into areas they are not native to. those hundreds of varieties they are vaccinating against? well they aren't all local. when you come down with a little flu afterwards, you just infected the guy next to you with a strain of flu not native to this area.)

polio, hepatitis and maleria have all been pinned down. i'll take the risk & get vaccinated against the plagues that might kill me.

death is a little scarier than a fever imho.

[Delfonic]

it's because all you need is love