Weak spot discovered in HIV virus

[Sinner]

llello and hookers ftw!

[matt]

hiv/aids will be cured a lot faster than cancer for sure. shouldn't be too much longer...

[Roos]

Originally Posted by xian

Wow... how aggressive and mean of you

Of course no one deserves it but one can engage in behavior that makes it more or less likely to catch, yes?

I think what he's saying is that when solutions to bad/risky/dangerous behavior are discovered it makes it more likely that people will engage in that behavior not that everyone with AIDs caught it as a result of bad behavior.


Let me illustrate.... if we had a cure for an exploding liver due to cirrhosis fewer alcoholics would be encouraged to take better care of themselves and thus continue to engage in risky behavior that put others at risk as well.

That may be what he meant, but it's not what he wrote. Which is why I said to think before you type. He wrote Cures should only be given out to the innocent and not the guy who buys hookers and cheats and so on... And that is bullshit. I hope that he doesn't think that if a cure is found then it should selectively be given out depending on past behavior. I've watched my best friend of 28 years go through hell dealing with HIV that he contracted due to his ignorance when he was younger... not something he intentionally did. And even if he had intentionally gone to hookers or cheated on someone, nobody deserves to live with that disease, and nobody should be counted out if by some chance there was a cure available. period.

[PETA]

Originally Posted by Roos

That may be what he meant, but it's not what he wrote. Which is why I said to think before you type. He wrote Cures should only be given out to the innocent and not the guy who buys hookers and cheats and so on... And that is bullshit.

Why? Rewarding particularly bad behavior with a get out of jail free card from their bad acts will go a long way toward ensuring that people continue those bad acts.

You noted your buddy never did the bad things he mentioned. Your buddy wouldn't be amongst those he'd exclude.

Originally Posted by Roos

he contracted due to his ignorance when he was younger... not something he intentionally did.

So he got it from a blood transfusion? Rape? Because if he got it from voluntary sex or drugs then yes, he got it from an intentional act Michael. Maybe a one naively/poorly chosen but still intentional.

Originally Posted by Roos

And even if he had intentionally gone to hookers or cheated on someone, nobody deserves to live with that disease, and nobody should be counted out if by some chance there was a cure available. period.

FTR - I don't think hookers (female ones anyway) are a big source of the spread or AIDS... nor is cheating. AIDS has largely remained in the gay male community and IV drug using community. In either case precautions can be taken. They are not perfect but they help. I think smackpickles was saying those who fail to take precautions and represent a continued threat of the spread of AIDS due to their negligence deserve less sympathy and should have a lower priority in getting their dose of the cure. Not sure I agree but I think the argument has some merit.

Do you think the guy who hangs out with people with AIDs and shares heroin needles with them should be given the same degree of concern as the child who got it through a blood transfusion... accepting the fact that there are limited resources... and you have to make choices and allocations.

[Sinner]

Originally Posted by xian

Why? Rewarding particularly bad behavior with a get out of jail free card from their bad acts will go a long way toward ensuring that people continue those bad acts.

You noted your buddy never did the bad things he mentioned. Your buddy wouldn't be amongst those he'd exclude.

sounds like a hella slippery slope to me!
you eat mcdonalds, you get cancer, no halp for you!
you smoke tobacco, you get cancer, no halp for you!
you sit on a couch all day, get fat, get diabetes, no halp for you!

Originally Posted by xian

FTR - I don't think hookers (female ones anyway) are a big source of the spread or AIDS... nor is cheating. AIDS has largely remained in the gay male community and IV drug using community.

racist!

[Roos]

I'm not debating this. It's stupid. I didn't even read your last posts because I knew you would be the one to try and debate the subject. I know what he wrote and I corrected the way he wrote it. Did I do it in an angry manner? Sure. It pissed me off. And I don't care what anyone says, nobody deserves the disease and nobody deserves not to be cured if the option is there. That's it. And if you feel differently, then 1) I think it's pathetically inhumane and 2) you should spend 15 years side by side with someone who has contracted it and then think it over.

I'm done.

[PETA]

Originally Posted by MicahB

sounds like a hella slippery slope to me!
you eat mcdonalds, you get cancer, no halp for you!
you smoke tobacco, you get cancer, no halp for you!
you sit on a couch all day, get fat, get diabetes, no halp for you!

Here's the problem with your argument though.... cancer is a lot more difficult to trace to a source. Smoking, yeah. And think about what we've done with regard to gov't control on that issue. You want the same controls on gay sex? The requirement of condoms and the gov't will fine you if you don't and further... throw you in jail if you spread the disease?

Look, I'm not advocating his argument. I'm saying that when we can mitigate the harm from a risky behavior it makes it more likely that people will engage in the behavior - no more no less. You, for example, would be far more likely to jump out of an airplane with a parachute than without one. A cure for AIDs is a bit like a parachute

Originally Posted by MicahB

racist!

I'm black - how can that be

[PETA]

Originally Posted by Roos

I'm not debating this. It's stupid. I didn't even read your last posts because I knew you would be the one to try and debate the subject. I know what he wrote and I corrected the way he wrote it. Did I do it in an angry manner? Sure. It pissed me off. And I don't care what anyone says, nobody deserves the disease and nobody deserves not to be cured if the option is there. That's it. And if you feel differently, then 1) I think it's pathetically inhumane and 2) you should spend 15 years side by side with someone who has contracted it and then think it over.

I'm done.

You didn't read my comments...

You then issue the challenge:

. And if you feel differently, then 1) I think it's pathetically inhumane and 2) you should spend 15 years side by side with someone who has contracted it and then think it over.

followed by

I'm done.

yes, please, issue your moralizing as the only acceptable take on the subject, declare those whose positions you neither understand nor even read to be wrong and then depart...

yes, gtfo Roos.... geesh man.

Climb the fuck down. No one ever said anyone deserved the damn disease. If you're going to get into the moral debate have the courtesy to read the discussion and engage in it rather than point snide fingers and leave.

[Sinner]

Originally Posted by xian

Here's the problem with your argument though.... cancer is a lot more difficult to trace to a source. Smoking, yeah. And think about what we've done with regard to gov't control on that issue. You want the same controls on gay sex? The requirement of condoms and the gov't will fine you if you don't and further... throw you in jail if you spread the disease?

Look, I'm not advocating his argument. I'm saying that when we can mitigate the harm from a risky behavior it makes it more likely that people will engage in the behavior - no more no less. You, for example, would be far more likely to jump out of an airplane with a parachute than without one. A cure for AIDs is a bit like a parachute

Well, it wouldn't happen. Thankfully.

I'm very skeptic of "CURE FOR HIV ALMOST FOUND" research anyways.
I'm very happy there are steps being made, but these "cures" are found at least once a year it seems.

Originally Posted by xian

I'm black - how can that be

http://tbn0.google.com/images?q=tbn:...nap-410621.png

[PETA]

Originally Posted by MicahB

Well, it wouldn't happen. Thankfully.

I'm very skeptic of "CURE FOR HIV ALMOST FOUND" research anyways.
I'm very happy there are steps being made, but these "cures" are found at least once a year it seems.

what the jumping?

And agreed... those "cures" on the brink do, imo, on the margins create the justification for risky behavior that otherwise wouldn't have happened.

its the same principle of spending future earnings before you actually have them know that there around the corner

[Sinner]

Originally Posted by xian

what the jumping?

And agreed... those "cures" on the brink do, imo, on the margins create the justification for risky behavior that otherwise wouldn't have happened.

its the same principle of spending future earnings before you actually have them know that there around the corner

what "won't happen" is a cure being withheld because of the reasons someone got it.

[Roos]

ok... went back and read it.

Originally Posted by xian

Why? Rewarding particularly bad behavior with a get out of jail free card from their bad acts will go a long way toward ensuring that people continue those bad acts.

When it comes to this subject, that's ridiculous. And inhumane. curing someone of a disease that kills them is not a 'get out of jail free' card.

Originally Posted by xian

So he got it from a blood transfusion? Rape? Because if he got it from voluntary sex or drugs then yes, he got it from an intentional act Michael. Maybe a one naively/poorly chosen but still intentional.

Not that it's anyone's business, but he contracted it through a blood transfusion.

Originally Posted by xian

I think smackpickles was saying those who fail to take precautions and represent a continued threat of the spread of AIDS due to their negligence deserve less sympathy and should have a lower priority in getting their dose of the cure. Not sure I agree but I think the argument has some merit. Do you think the guy who hangs out with people with AIDs and shares heroin needles with them should be given the same degree of concern as the child who got it through a blood transfusion... accepting the fact that there are limited resources... and you have to make choices and allocations.

This argument (which is not what I think he meant, but I'll still address it) has some merit if the cure was not available to every single person with the disease. If that were the case, then maybe the consideration for who should receive it first should be taken. But that's a hypothetical. However, that's not what he said, which is why I said 'think before you type'.

Originally Posted by xian

yes, please, issue your moralizing as the only acceptable take on the subject, declare those whose positions you neither understand nor even read to be wrong and then depart...

yes, gtfo Roos.... geesh man.

Climb the fuck down. No one ever said anyone deserved the damn disease. If you're going to get into the moral debate have the courtesy to read the discussion and engage in it rather than point snide fingers and leave.

I responded to his comment. I didn't throw out hypothetical situations like 'who gets it first if there are limited cures' or 'I think this is what he meant'. I didn't respond to start hypothetical debate. I responded exactly to what he said. So in regards to that comment, I'll stand tall on my box.

Originally Posted by MicahB

what "won't happen" is a cure being withheld because of the reasons someone got it.

And it shouldn't.

NOW I am done.

[PETA]

Originally Posted by Roos

When it comes to this subject, that's ridiculous. And inhumane. curing someone of a disease that kills them is not a 'get out of jail free' card.

Well, yes it is. You just think that there is no method of aquiring AIDs that justifies denying the cure. I don't necessarily disagree with you and this has never been my point.

Originally Posted by Roos

But that's a hypothetical.

This is all hypothetical. There is no cure. And if there was a cure there wouldn't suddenly be a sufficient amount conjured out of this air to treat everyone. Choices would need to be made. That sucks, its ugly and would proably be in many cases unfair. Discussing options doesn't make some one inhumane etc etc.

Originally Posted by Roos

I responded to his comment.

No you responded to his.. and then to mine... twice.... I'll be done too now

[MC Twinkie]

Originally Posted by matt

hiv/aids will be cured a lot faster than cancer for sure. shouldn't be too much longer...

Cancer is mutated cells that grow out of control and into places they shouldn't. A virus makes your cells make more viruses and then kills your cells. My point is, how do you fix a mutation? Your body can replace cells that die from viruses, but there is no map to rebuild your body to the way it was before the cancer.

Yeah, I don't know about deserving aids. There are a lot of people I hate and I wish aids on them, but its just wishing. I wouldn't say they deserve it. Roos didn't say that the guy didn't sleep around, he just said that he didn't cheat, so it could have been a lot of one night stands.

[BradH]

Originally Posted by matt

hiv/aids will be cured a lot faster than cancer for sure. shouldn't be too much longer...

Actually there is some new research that re-injected some type of cells into this guys body that fight cancer.... and he was cured and still is 4 years later. If I remember correctly, the scientists removed some cells, duplicated them a whole lot, then put them back in.

It was about to be published in some journal. Trying to find the article now, I read it last week or so.

The method is very expensive but it is something to go on.


And currently a lot of cancer is "treatable". Whereas once the onset of AIDS happens from HIV most people don't survive for very long from my understanding.