Obama has a great energy policy...

[St. Stalin the Apathetic]

Originally Posted by tricky

As one commenter on HuffingtonPost has noted,

Just not quite as significant as the Dems agreeing to lift the ban on OCS drilling.... conservation is very important... no debating that point. But the dems seem to think the debate should end at that point.

Mitch McConnell urges offshore drilling in the Senate

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[e-brake]

Originally Posted by xian

wish I could find the analysis on the oil savings of inflating tires vs new drilling but the end result is that while it is true that proper inflation is important it is statisticlly insignificant when compared to drilling new sources. In short, his suggestion is a good one - just meaningless in addressing the crisis at hand.

As is McCains plan, the difference is McCain seems to be proud of his ignorance:

http://thinkprogress.org/2008/08/05/...ire-inflation/
http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpu...pushes-ba.html

[St. Stalin the Apathetic]

Originally Posted by e-brake

As is McCains plan, the difference is McCain seems to be proud of his ignorance:

http://thinkprogress.org/2008/08/05/...ire-inflation/
http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpu...pushes-ba.html

did you borrow that phrase? ^

he at least advocates opening up banned drilling locations and doesn't advocate taxing Exxon for the audacity of making a profit

Obama's own expert denies the validity of Obama's tire inflation claim

Conservation is important and Obama is correct that we need to do it... but he falls flat on his face when he claims it'll replace the value of new drilling on the OCS

In addition to stubbornly clinging to his original error, Obama describes those who rightly think it is absurd to assert the idea that inflating tires can equal the energy flowing from new production from the outer continental shelf as "tak[ing] pride in being ignorant."

Tapper tracked down one of the "energy experts" Obama challenged his critics to find, Frank Verrastro at CSIS, who told Tapper:

"So the production offset [from inflating tires] is more likely to approach 800 thousand barrels per day – a tidy sum and a worthwhile target for savings, but not equal to OCS output," he rules. "Finally, without knowing what production volumes could be expected from lifting the ban on OCS drilling moratoria, it’s impossible to assert that taking these fuel savings actions would exceed future offshore oil volumes, and in fact, one might argue that the combination of achieving these savings AND developing new supply would doubly enhance US energy security."

The fact that Obama feels the need to cling to an absurd position in the face of the overwhelming rejection of his facts is disquieting. You can stick to unpopular policies because you believe they are correct and will ultimately bring important results, as President Bush has done in Iraq.

But you cannot stick to made up facts and not prompt serious questions about judgment.

http://hughhewitt.townhall.com/blog/...8-b108138d5cf4





from your second link Kevin

"So I told them something simple," Obama said. "I said, 'You know what? You can inflate your tires to the proper levels and that if everybody in America inflated their tires to the proper level, we would actually probably save more oil than all the oil we'd get from John McCain drilling right below his feet there, or wherever he was going to drill.'"
(Note: that's not accurate, as we fact-checked last week. But the larger point about energy savings is correct.)

so.... Obama's claim is factually wrong but he gets to call those who point this out as prideful in their ignorance? WTF is going on here? Obama gets to use phoney facts and we're supposed to call McCain ignorant for not understandingf that just because Obama's facts are wrong and McCain's are right we should support Obama? Where dos the line of absurdity begin Kevin? It seems miles in the rearview here. The press is telling us Obama's wrong but they then say what he meant was something else.... even though he keeps repeating the same error? Please. Obama's getting a free ride on a stupid comment here and McCain's getting attacked for pointing out the fact that Obama was flat out wrong..... and stupid..... and repeating his stupid wrong comment.


gonna take a while for me to find the letter on-line but a recent article was submitted to an Economics journal (forget which right now) - it was rejected. It said that opening the OCS and other banned drilling locations would have an immediate impact on the price of oil. The letter of rejection said, in essence, "nothing new here - yes, it's true and accurate... so what"

[Mike Detloff]

While the American worker is stressing over the continual rise of the price of gas, the upper echelon is picking the color of the interior on its new million dollar Dubai Bugatti.Lifting bans on conserves is not the answer.

Has everyone forgotten that the major oil companies have posted record profits since 2002 and that the investors of these companies, through their greed, are careless about the security of the Global environment?

Lifting bans on areas designated as conserves so that a small percentage of people can live the "good" life is irrational. One of the proposed areas for future drilling, the Gulf of Mexico, has a huge personal significance to me. I spent much of my youth on the Gulf Coast. This area, particularly East of Alabama into the Florida panhandle has some of the most beautiful beaches in the world. To inflict a change in the ecosystem of this area and possibly taint it for future generations for the sake of increasing the personal profit of a few is highly unjustified.

Perhaps we should be pressuring our "elected" representatives to create policies that regulate the oil empire instead of lifting bans on land conserves and allowing it to set new records of profit that fatten the pockets of it's investors.

Perhaps our elected officials need to quit being "whipped and coddled" by an industry that has no concern for it's consumer, the government or the long term effects of their greed on the Global environment. They should use their power to start regulating this American Oil Regime instead of opening protected land conserves. This is not the first time that Big Business has pushed to lift bans on conserves. It will surely not be the last

Also, we, the people, need to stop being fooled into thinking that our elected representatives have the country's best interests in mind and not their own.

Without regulation, prices for goods and services will continue to rise regardless of how many places are made available for drilling and collecting oil. In the end we will have created irreversible environmental damage and saved no natural beauty for future generations to enjoy.

[St. Stalin the Apathetic]

Originally Posted by Mike Detloff

Lifting bans on conserves is not the answer.

what is?

Originally Posted by Mike Detloff

Has everyone forgotten that the major oil companies have posted record profits since 2002 and that the investors of these companies, through their greed, are careless about the security of the Global environment?

Oil companies find and extract oil to sell in order to make a profit for their share holders. They've been doing that very well. Wtf does the security of a global environment have to do with that?

Originally Posted by Mike Detloff

Lifting bans on areas designated as conserves so that a small percentage of people can live the "good" life is irrational.

defend that claim. Lowering the cost of oil will have an impact on the cost at the pump. Those most harmed by high oil prices are the very large percentage of people not living the good life. Your point is exactly opposite of reality - it is irrational

Originally Posted by Mike Detloff

One of the proposed areas for future drilling, the Gulf of Mexico, has a huge personal significance to me. I spent much of my youth on the Gulf Coast. This area, particularly East of Alabama into the Florida panhandle has some of the most beautiful beaches in the world. To inflict a change in the ecosystem of this area and possibly taint it for future generations for the sake of increasing the personal profit of a few is highly unjustified.

Again you forget that lowering oil prices helps those whom high gas prices hurt the most.

Second, show me the environmental devastation caused by Katrina to illustrate what new Gulf drilling could do?

Thirdly, seven miles, that how far out to sea you might be able, under optimum conditions, to actually see due to global curvature.

Your argument is a straw man with no evidence to support your worries.

Originally Posted by Mike Detloff

Perhaps we should be pressuring our "elected" representatives to create policies that regulate the oil empire instead of lifting bans on land conserves and allowing it to set new records of profit that fatten the pockets of it's investors.

Well, Obama does want to tax Exxon extra for being so darn successful.

Originally Posted by Mike Detloff

Perhaps our elected officials need to quit being "whipped and coddled" by an industry that has no concern for it's consumer, the government or the long term effects of their greed on the Global environment. They should use their power to start regulating this American Oil Regime instead of opening protected land conserves. This is not the first time that Big Business has pushed to lift bans on conserves. It will surely not be the last

Also, we, the people, need to stop being fooled into thinking that our elected representatives have the country's best interests in mind and not their own.

What a load of garbage - be a hippy all you want but high gas proces are hurting lots of people. Gulf drilling hasn't ruined any environment. Profit motive is what corporations operate on. More drilling in the Gulf for oil will not hurt the envirnment and can help those suffering from high gas prices.

Originally Posted by Mike Detloff

Without regulation, prices for goods and services will continue to rise regardless of how many places are made available for drilling and collecting oil. In the end we will have created irreversible environmental damage and saved no natural beauty for future generations to enjoy.

Where is this irreversible damage from gulf drilling you keep referrng to?

Your concerns sound wonderful in a utopian world but here and now people have to eat, get to work and heat/cool their homes. We need energy supplies. One (of many) sources we must exploit is our oil resources. Denying the value of increasing the world oil supply is a stark denial or reality.

[GreyArea]

It's like a republican echo camber in here...

ZOMG he said to inflate your tire's and nothing else.....secret Muslim, 57 states, 9/11 9/11 9/11!!!11!!111111

high school politics ftw!!

[St. Stalin the Apathetic]

Originally Posted by GreyArea

It's like a republican echo camber in here...

ZOMG he said to inflate your tire's and nothing else.....secret Muslim, 57 states, 9/11 9/11 9/11!!!11!!111111

high school politics ftw!!

he said inflating your tires will save more oil than new drilling will produce - he was wrong as indicated by the expert upon whom Obama originally relied in making the claim.... and he made it again after that falacy was revealed.

This isn't old school unless you mean Obama's repeating bullshit because he thinks it'll sell without regard to the truth.

The criticism of Obama is fair. Your attack on the critics is based on what? Nothing - its empty - you just call the critics names. The critics pointed out Obama's bad facts. See a substantive difference there?

[Hubb]

Originally Posted by xian

he said inflating your tires will save more oil than new drilling will produce - he was wrong as indicated by the expert upon whom Obama originally relied in making the claim.... and he made it again after that falacy was revealed.

This isn't old school unless you mean Obama's repeating bullshit because he thinks it'll sell without regard to the truth.

The criticism of Obama is fair. Your attack on the critics is based on what? Nothing - its empty - you just call the critics names. The critics pointed out Obama's bad facts. See a substantive difference there?

LOLOLOLOL...the republican critics grabbed a sound bite that was at the end of an 1.5 hour discussion and ran with it. Its really a trival point and was said in answer to a question. The question was, "What can I do, as a single american, to hep the gas crisis?" His answer was honest and spot on. What the republican party has tried to turn it into is absurd and basically goes back to the McCain camp having nothing other than obamas speeches to speak on. Keep towing that line

[GreyArea]

Originally Posted by xian

he said inflating your tires will save more oil than new drilling will produce - he was wrong as indicated by the expert upon whom Obama originally relied in making the claim.... and he made it again after that falacy was revealed.

This isn't old school unless you mean Obama's repeating bullshit because he thinks it'll sell without regard to the truth.

The criticism of Obama is fair. Your attack on the critics is based on what? Nothing - its empty - you just call the critics names. The critics pointed out Obama's bad facts. See a substantive difference there?

Here is some more reading from you. I find it quit laughable that you will defend anything. We both know that this isn't his only plan for energy, but that fact shouldn't stop the smear. Math works.

"Jake Tapper, critic of Obama, wrote this:

Using the website FuelEconomy.gov, Verrastro writes, we can estimate that "the maximum (estimated) fuel economy (i.e., mileage) savings drivers could expect as a result of keeping their engines properly tuned (4%), replacing air filters (up to 10%), properly inflating tires (up to 3%) and using the correct motor oil (1-2%) is 18-19%. Since American drivers use roughly 380 million gallons of gasoline (not including diesel) per day, an 18% improvement translates into a savings of 68 million gallons, or 1.62 million barrels of oil per day."

However, since estimates of significant tire underinflation affect only about a quarter of the cars on road -- as we noted above with the NHTSA statistics -- and it's highly unlikely that 100% of the cars are in need of tune-ups at any given time, the maximum savings amount is probably closer to 10%, Verrastro says.

So if a number close to 20% (18-19%) of improved vehicle efficiency is 1.62 million barrels a day saved, the more realistic number is we're wasting 800,000 barrels a day because a lot of Americans have no idea how to look after their cars in the most basic of ways. Even on a simple level like oil and filter changes changes. Or tire pressure.

That's Obama's idea. How about "drill here drill now"? Well, if you drill here right now you're going to make a farking mess of my kitchen and my wife will kill you with that Rabbit corkscrew thingy we got for Christmas.

But seriously: how much oil will we get from offshore drilling?

The government's Energy Information Administration has the answer. But don't hold your breath...

The Energy Information Administration said that opening access to undersea oil fields "in the Pacific, Atlantic and eastern Gulf regions would not have a significant impact on crude oil and natural gas production or prices before 2030." Drilling in domestic waters off all the coasts except Alaska's would increase annual production from 2.2 million barrels a day to 2.4 million barrels a day, the agency estimates.

Two things the geniuses out there have noticed... first of all, that's only an increase of 200,000 barrels. And secondly, you don't get to see that much output until the year 2030.

That's 22 years from now.

Making sure your car isn't a clunker could save America 800,000 barrels of oil a day right now. Fall for that "drill here drill now" line, and you really are gullible. Because you only get 1/4 of the equivalent in oil to fall back on, and that won't be until Paris Hilton is 49 years old. Not so 'hot'.

How much could that cost America? This is where the geniuses really start to drool.

At 800,000 barrels a day, that's 6.5 billion barrels over those 22 years. At current prices? That's almost a trillion dollars. And if we use those 800,000 barrels a day we don't need to, that's more demand for the same supply... so the price goes up and up and up (notice how the price of gas went DOWN when people started having 'stay-cations'?).

One trillion dollars. Not a million, or a billion. A trillion. That's a '1' with twelve zeroes after it. No person in the history of the world has ever earned a trillion dollars. Only one company in the history of the world, PetroChina, has been valued at a trillion bucks... and America could save that amount in just 20 years. Just think: that's money that isn't going to some Saudi family. Which means it's money not going to some fanatical religious school in Riyadh.

And all you have to do is make sure your car or truck is fit for the road.

Obama was right. Just think. A TRILLION DOLLARS. Kind of makes the whole McCain stuff look like politics for pussies."

[zerojunkie]

Originally Posted by Mike Detloff

While the American worker is stressing over the continual rise of the price of gas, the upper echelon is picking the color of the interior on its new million dollar Dubai Bugatti.Lifting bans on conserves is not the answer.

Has everyone forgotten that the major oil companies have posted record profits since 2002 and that the investors of these companies, through their greed, are careless about the security of the Global environment?

Lifting bans on areas designated as conserves so that a small percentage of people can live the "good" life is irrational. One of the proposed areas for future drilling, the Gulf of Mexico, has a huge personal significance to me. I spent much of my youth on the Gulf Coast. This area, particularly East of Alabama into the Florida panhandle has some of the most beautiful beaches in the world. To inflict a change in the ecosystem of this area and possibly taint it for future generations for the sake of increasing the personal profit of a few is highly unjustified.

Perhaps we should be pressuring our "elected" representatives to create policies that regulate the oil empire instead of lifting bans on land conserves and allowing it to set new records of profit that fatten the pockets of it's investors.

Perhaps our elected officials need to quit being "whipped and coddled" by an industry that has no concern for it's consumer, the government or the long term effects of their greed on the Global environment. They should use their power to start regulating this American Oil Regime instead of opening protected land conserves. This is not the first time that Big Business has pushed to lift bans on conserves. It will surely not be the last

Also, we, the people, need to stop being fooled into thinking that our elected representatives have the country's best interests in mind and not their own.

Without regulation, prices for goods and services will continue to rise regardless of how many places are made available for drilling and collecting oil. In the end we will have created irreversible environmental damage and saved no natural beauty for future generations to enjoy.

Oh I see our resident Mennonite has spoken up. I'm glad you've broken free of the shackles of modernity and can now point out the oil industry's sole purpose for existing is to let a few people live the "good" life. I, for one, would love to get to work each day in a horse drawn buggy, live without that tiresome polymer known as plastic, and not be bothered with having an almost limitless supply of nonindigenous food at my fingertips. Sorry dude, but oil enables us all to live the good life. I don't like being affixed to the oil dick from the middle east anymore than the next person, but the more oil we get from places that aren't the middle east the less subject we are to a camel fart that causes oil to rise $10/bbl.

[St. Stalin the Apathetic]

Originally Posted by GreyArea

Here is some more reading from you.

...

I find it quit laughable that you will defend anything.

I'm not defending, I'm advocating. I'm advocating getting more energy supplies to reduce the cost cruch to consumers. You're defending a plan to keep a ban in place that will prevent getting more energy supplies to market.

the fact remains... Obama claimed inflating our tires would replace the need for new oil. He is wrong as acknowledged by many sources... including his own.

I've acknowledged ad nauseum that he's right on conservation - spot on - very important. Problem is that he's very wrong on his support of continuing to ban new drilling. Drilling will not put immediate oil on the market but banning drilling will never get it to market. Estimates vary as to how long it'll take. As I noted, a recent article pointing out the simply lifting the ban would have an impact on oil prices was rejected by a prestigious Econ journal (no Jonny - not the WSJ article - an academic article - I'll try to find it for you) because it does not represent anythng new - in short - "yeah, you're right - so what?"

[Mike Detloff]

Originally Posted by zerojunkie

Oh I see our resident Mennonite has spoken up. I'm glad you've broken free of the shackles of modernity and can now point out the oil industry's sole purpose for existing is to let a few people live the "good" life. I, for one, would love to get to work each day in a horse drawn buggy, live without that tiresome polymer known as plastic, and not be bothered with having an almost limitless supply of nonindigenous food at my fingertips. Sorry dude, but oil enables us all to live the good life. I don't like being affixed to the oil dick from the middle east anymore than the next person, but the more oil we get from places that aren't the middle east the less subject we are to a camel fart that causes oil to rise $10/bbl.

wow...

[Mike Detloff]

Originally Posted by xian

what is?



Oil companies find and extract oil to sell in order to make a profit for their share holders. They've been doing that very well. Wtf does the security of a global environment have to do with that?



defend that claim. Lowering the cost of oil will have an impact on the cost at the pump. Those most harmed by high oil prices are the very large percentage of people not living the good life. Your point is exactly opposite of reality - it is irrational



Again you forget that lowering oil prices helps those whom high gas prices hurt the most.

Second, show me the environmental devastation caused by Katrina to illustrate what new Gulf drilling could do?

Thirdly, seven miles, that how far out to sea you might be able, under optimum conditions, to actually see due to global curvature.

Your argument is a straw man with no evidence to support your worries.



Well, Obama does want to tax Exxon extra for being so darn successful.



What a load of garbage - be a hippy all you want but high gas proces are hurting lots of people. Gulf drilling hasn't ruined any environment. Profit motive is what corporations operate on. More drilling in the Gulf for oil will not hurt the envirnment and can help those suffering from high gas prices.



Where is this irreversible damage from gulf drilling you keep referrng to?

Your concerns sound wonderful in a utopian world but here and now people have to eat, get to work and heat/cool their homes. We need energy supplies. One (of many) sources we must exploit is our oil resources. Denying the value of increasing the world oil supply is a stark denial or reality.

points noted...

[I AM EL-NINO]

Originally Posted by Big Andy

no where in any of those quotes of Obama does he say that no further energy policy is necessary other than inflating tires and tuning up cars, which is what's being implied by the right in this situation.


So NO, that's not what he said "verbatim."


Know how the system works? what system, gas or smear? OR does it matter? I'm not talking specifics here, but it's obvious the oil industry has got a great racket going, and they're making billions.

The plain fact is, energy policy wasn't even a buzz word until this election, so it's being abused for propaganda purposes. It's the new gay marriage.

It's obvious that way too many of us are using more than our fair share of a non-renewable resource, so drilling for more when we don't even have the capacity to refine it any faster is absolutely ludicrous and an obvious pandering tactic.

In this specific situation, where a politician has made a good suggestion referring to the fact that the average american CAN have an impact on our oil consumption, but is getting blasted for it... That's smear. And I would expect no less from the Republicans.

Dude, what your saying is idiotic. You either are very young and dont remember the last election or are just very poorly prepared and ignorant.
Energy policy has been discussed for many years. If you would remember, Bush was critized for not doing enough for gas prices during the last presidential election. This term is probably older then you are. And to suggest Obuma has an energy policy is just laughable. Get over it. Obuma is a fake and has no plan other then to satisfy the extreme left with thier dumb suggestions of tire pressure and the like. Heres something for you to mull over.....I was in the tire business for fifteen years before getting into the field im in now. Where is there a standard for pressure guages to be checked to see if they are even close to being accurate? Are we going to rely on our Government to make sure such guages are standardized and calibrated? Expecially when most of them are built in China?
Very very few people out there dont check thier air pressures. To suggest that as some kind of new idea for people is just plain stupid and arrogant.
Lets get on with some real answers like Obamas associations with criminals and terrorists like William Ayers? Or his Muslim extremist associations with the guy running as his 'Muslim relations chief" having to resign today after he was called out? Lets talk real problems for Obuma. And this aint coming from any Republican here bro.

[e-brake]

Originally Posted by xian

did you borrow that phrase? ^

yes in fact I did.....

Originally Posted by xian

he at least advocates opening up banned drilling locations and doesn't advocate taxing Exxon for the audacity of making a profit

Why shoudl we open up banned drilling locations when they havent even bothered to go after the oil in the locations where its already allowed? They just want us to open up the banned sites so they can steak a claim to the oil before other companies might have the resources to claim it in another 50-100 years. Right now a small group of 10-12 companies have all of the exclusive technologies to tap and claim that oil, in the future as better tech arrives more companies will have the ability to get to it, so the big guys want it open now so they can retain a monopoly on the US oil supply.

As far as taxing the companies for making a profit, I dont agree with that. It still makes more sense than McCain who wants the most profitable companies in the world free money. Taxing them for being sucessfull is stupid, but giving them tax money for being successful is plain retarded.

Originally Posted by xian

Obama's own expert denies the validity of Obama's tire inflation claim

Well McCain was on TV this afternoon changing position, and has validated Obamas plan himself so I guess that makes the GOP look like the dipshits yet again.

BTW it was McCain in 2007 who suggested that we could fix the energy crisis with new lightbulbs alone. When it comes to dumb energy ideas McCain is way out in front and has been for decades.

Originally Posted by xian

Conservation is important and Obama is correct that we need to do it... but he falls flat on his face when he claims it'll replace the value of new drilling on the OCS

Obama has endorsed limited off shore drilling, he has just asked for environmental oversight. McCain is the retard that we should just allow the oil companies to oversee their own environmental policies. Doesnt take a rocket scientist to be terrified by that thought, just look at how they handled the Alaska spill.