*facepalm* Bush holds US flag backwards at Olympics for almost 20 minutes

[Daryl]

Originally Posted by progress

Obviously people don't get that it's not backwards......there is no such thing as it being backwards.

With the exception of MOUNTING IT ON A FLAGPOLE, yeah. You're right. I've never seen anyone put the holes on the "wrong" side of the flag, but you never know. There are some special people out there in the world.

Originally Posted by david austin

wow... is this really happening

This is DDM. Abandon all hope ye who enter here.

[Nyteshade]

Originally Posted by xian

Look that the (right) shoulder of any Army soldier.... it'll be facing that same way....

Completely different analogy. The reason the flag is backwards on the Army uniform is to signify they are always moving forward (as if the body is the flagpole).

[progress]

Originally Posted by Sexual Chocolate

With the exception of MOUNTING IT ON A FLAGPOLE, yeah. You're right. I've never seen anyone put the holes on the "wrong" side of the flag, but you never know.

Yea, because we all know that if you are facing a flagpole and the wind is blowing right from left, the magical powers of the US Flag somehow defy physics and still keep the stars on the left so it's not "backwards"......

[Nyteshade]

Originally Posted by progress

Obviously people don't get that it's not backwards......there is no such thing as it being backwards.

This is so wrong it's not even funny.

[St. Stalin the Apathetic]

Originally Posted by Nyteshade

Completely different analogy. The reason the flag is backwards on the Army uniform is to signify they are always moving forward (as if the body is the flagpole).

The point is that orientation is not absolute.... it depends on how and where the flag is being displayed.

On the uniform it is symbolic of moving forward... GW is a person not a wall (despite arguments to the contrary) and is rienting the flag horizontally rather than vertically so he can display the flag under the same principle

Civilians often wonder why the US Army Flag Patch is reversed. The answer is: not all Army Flag Patches are reversed, but only those worn on the right shoulder. The reason has to do with proper display of the flag.

The blue field of stars should always be in the highest position of honor. When viewing the flag on a wall, the highest position of honor is the upper left when displayed horizontally, and at the top (upper left) when displayed vertically. When displayed on a "moving object" like a person or vehicle, the highest position of honor is the front, and not the rear; so the field of blue should be displayed to the front.

The same principle applies to the eagle rank of Colonels (or Navy Captains); the eagles' heads are always worn facing forward when worn on the uniform, as the forward-facing eagle is the position of honor within heraldry.

In application, then, flags are displayed on moving vehicles with the blue-star field always displayed towards the front of the vehicle. In this way, the flag appears to be blowing in the wind as the vehicle travels forward (flags are always attached to their flag poles on the blue field side). If the flag were not reversed on the right hand side of the vehicle, the vehicle might appear to be moving backwards (or "retreating").

The next time you visit an airport, notice that the US-flagged aircraft also have a "reverse" flag painted on the right side of the aircraft.

For flag patches worn on uniforms, the same principle applies: the blue star field always faces towards the front, with the red and white stripes behind. Think of the flag, not as a patch, but as a loose flag attached to the Soldier's arm like a flag pole. As the Soldier moves forward, the red and white stripes will flow to the back.

As the proponent for standardization and authorization of heraldry items within the Department of Defense, the Institute of Heraldry addresses the apparent oddity of the reverse flag patch by stating, "When worn on the right sleeve, it is considered proper to reverse the design so that the union is at the observer's right to suggest that the flag is flying in the breeze as the wearer moves forward."

http://www.marlowwhite.com/faq-why-i...-reversed.html

[Nyteshade]

Originally Posted by xian

The point is that orientation is not absolute.... it depends on how and where the flag is being displayed.

On the uniform it is symbolic of moving forward... GW is a person not a wall (despite arguments to the contrary) and is rienting the flag horizontally rather than vertically so he can display the flag under the same principle


http://www.marlowwhite.com/faq-why-i...-reversed.html

Specific to GW's case though:

8. When the flag is displayed in a manner other than by being flown from a staff, it should be displayed flat, whether indoors or out. When displayed either horizontally or vertically against a wall, the union should be uppermost and to the flag's own right, that is, to the observer's left. When displayed in a window it should be displayed in the same way, that is with the union or blue field to the left of the observer in the street. When festoons, rosettes or drapings are desired, bunting of blue, white and red should be used, but never the flag.

When showing off flags at sporting events, the audience are the intended observers. Not the person holding it up.

[Daryl]

Originally Posted by progress

Yea, because we all know that if you are facing a flagpole and the wind is blowing right from left, the magical powers of the US Flag somehow defy physics and still keep the stars on the left so it's not "backwards"......

The defensocution will proudly point to the aforementioned statement given by counsel in reference to the "mounting" process. It is expected that the wind will not blow in a supernatural manner at all times to have the Stars N' Stripes always going in the casual manner.

HOWEVER, the defensocution understands that the INITIAL mounting via hook and pulley system should always been done in the manner mentioned by Mssr. Xian.

The defensocution rests.

[e-brake]

Originally Posted by Sexual Chocolate

With the exception of MOUNTING IT ON A FLAGPOLE, yeah. You're right. I've never seen anyone put the holes on the "wrong" side of the flag, but you never know. There are some special people out there in the world.

I was taught the proper way to display a flag at 7 years old in boy scouts. There is a properw way to display the flag and that was not it.

[St. Stalin the Apathetic]

Originally Posted by Nyteshade

Specific to GW's case though:



When showing off flags at sporting events, the audience are the intended observers. Not the person holding it up.

but he's a person still.... not a wall or flag pole

impasse

Again, I'm just saying orientation isn't absolute. There's a fair argument that he's holding it just fine.

And, how is progress wrong, when the wind blows the flag the stars are going to be on the left one side of the pole or the other....


Kevin.... 7 year olds are not allowed to join Boy Scouts.... gotta be 10

Meet age requirements: Be a boy who has completed the fifth grade and be at least 10 years old, or be 11 years old, or have earned the Arrow of Light Award and be at least 10 years old, and be under 18 years old.

http://www.usscouts.org/advance/boyscout/bsrank1.asp

[Daryl]

Originally Posted by xian

And, how is progress wrong, when the wind blows the flag the stars are going to be on the left one side of the pole or the other....

Please scroll up.

headbeatingagainstbrickwall.gif

[david austin]

so a flag is considered 'mounted' if you have a point of reference in front and behind you?

would intended audience also be considered behind you... after all... this flag isnt a one sided object.


again... this is dumb.

[progress]

Originally Posted by Nyteshade

Specific to GW's case though:

8. When the flag is displayed in a manner other than by being flown from a staff, it should be displayed flat, whether indoors or out. When displayed either horizontally or vertically against a wall, the union should be uppermost and to the flag's own right, that is, to the observer's left. When displayed in a window it should be displayed in the same way, that is with the union or blue field to the left of the observer in the street. When festoons, rosettes or drapings are desired, bunting of blue, white and red should be used, but never the flag.

When showing off flags at sporting events, the audience are the intended observers. Not the person holding it up.

1. He's not a wall. 2. He's got people on all sides of him. It's always going to be backwards to someone in an audience that completely surrounds it.

Here, I'll give you a link to the entire official government regulations on US Flag display to keep trying to prove yourself right....

http://www.senate.gov/reference/reso...df/RL30243.pdf

§ 7. Position and Manner of Display.

The flag, when carried in a procession with another flag or flags, should be
either on the marching right; that is, the flag’s own right, or, if there is a line of other
flags, in front of the center of that line.

(a) The flag should not be displayed on a float in a parade except from a staff, or
as provided in subsection (i) of this section.

(b) The flag should not be draped over the hood, top, sides, or back of a vehicle or
of a railroad train or a boat. When the flag is displayed on a motorcar, the staff
should be fixed firmly to the chassis or clamped to the right fender.

(c) No other flag or pennant should be placed above or, if on the same level, to the
right of the flag of the United States of America, except during church services
conducted by naval chaplains at sea, when the church pennant may be flown
above the flag during church services for the personnel of the Navy. No person
shall display the flag of the United Nations or any other national or international
flag equal, above, or in a position of superior prominence or honor to or in place
of the flag of the United States or any Territory or possession thereof: Provided,
That nothing in this section shall make unlawful the continuance of the practice
heretofore followed of displaying the flag of the United Nations in a position of
superior prominence or honor, and other national flags in positions of equal
prominence or honor, with that of the flag of the United States at the
headquarters of the United Nations.

(d) The flag of the United States of America, when it is displayed with another flag
against a wall from crossed staffs, should be on the right, the flag’s own right,
and its staff should be in front of the staff of the other flag.

(e) The flag of the United States of America should be at the center and at the
highest point of the group when a number of flags of States or localities or
pennants of societies are grouped and displayed from staffs.

(f) When flags of States, cities, or localities, or pennants of societies are flown on
the same halyard with the flag of the United States, the latter should always be
at the peak. When the flags are flown from adjacent staffs, the flag of the
United States should be hoisted first and lowered last. No such flag or pennant
may be placed above the flag of the United States or to the United States flag’s
right.

(g) When flags of two or more nations are displayed, they are to be flown from
separate staffs of the same height. The flags should be of approximately equal
size. International usage forbids the display of the flag of one nation above that
of another nation in time of peace.

(h) When the flag of the United States is displayed from a staff projecting
horizontally or at an angle from the window sill, balcony, or front of a building,
the union of the flag should be placed at the peak of the staff unless the flag is
at half-staff. When the flag is suspended over a sidewalk from a rope extending
from a house to a pole at the edge of the sidewalk, the flag should be hoisted
out, union first, from the building.

(i) When displayed either horizontally or vertically against a wall, the union should
be uppermost and to the flag’s own right, that is, to the observer’s left. When
displayed in a window, the flag should be displayed in the same way, with the
union or blue field to the left of the observer in the street.

(j) When the flag is displayed over the middle of the street, it should be suspended
vertically with the union to the north in an east and west street or to the east in
a north and south street.

(k) When used on a speaker’s platform, the flag, if displayed flat, should be
displayed above and behind the speaker. When displayed from a staff in a
church or public auditorium, the flag of the United States of America should
hold the position of superior prominence, in advance of the audience, and in the
position of honor at the clergyman’s or speaker’s right as he faces the audience.
Any other flag so displayed should be placed on the left of the clergyman or
speaker or to the right of the audience.

(l) The flag should form a distinctive feature of the ceremony of unveiling a statute
or monument, but it should never be used as the covering for the statute or
monument.

(m) The flag, when flown at half-staff, should be first hoisted to the peak for an
instant and then lowered to the half-staff position. The flag should be again
raised to the peak before it is lowered for the day. On Memorial Day, the flag
should be displayed at half-staff until noon only, then raised to the top of the
staff. By order of the President, the flag shall be flown at half-staff upon the
death of principal figures of the United States Government and the Governor of
a state, territory, or possession, as a mark of respect to their memory. In the
event of the death of other officials or foreign dignitaries, the flag is to be
displayed at half-staff according to Presidential instructions or orders, or in
accordance with recognized customs or practices not inconsistent with law. In
the event of the death of a present or former official of the government of any
state, territory, or possession of the United States or the death of a member of
the Armed Forces from any State, territory, or possession of the United States,
the Governor of that State, territory, or possession may proclaim that the
National flag shall be flown at half-staff, and the same authority is provided to
the Mayor of the District of Columbia with respect to present or former officials
of the District of Columbia and members of the Armed Forces from the District
of Columbia. When the Governor of a State, territory, or possession, or the
Mayor of the District of Columbia, issues a proclamation under the preceding
sentence that the National flag be flown at half-staff in that State, territory, or
possession or in the District of Columbia because of the death of a member of
the Armed Forces, the National flag flown at any Federal installation or facility
in the area covered by that proclamation shall be flown at half-staff consistent
with that proclamation. The flag shall be flown at half-staff thirty days from the
death of the President or a former President; ten days from the day of death of
the Vice-President, the Chief Justice or a retired Chief Justice of the United
States or the Speaker of the House of Representatives; from the day of death
until interment of an Associate Justice of the Supreme Court, a Secretary of an
executive or military department, a former Vice-President, or the Governor of
a state, territory, or possession; and on the day of death and the following day
for a Member of Congress. The flag shall be flown at half-staff on Peace
Officers Memorial Day, unless that day is also Armed Forces Day. As used in
this subsection —

(1) The term “half-staff” means the position of the flag when it is
one-half the distance between the top and bottom of the staff;

(2) the term “executive or military department” means any agency
listed under Sections 101 and 102 of Title 5, United States
Code; and

(3) the term “Member of Congress” means a Senator, a
Representative, a Delegate, or the Resident Commissioner from
Puerto Rico.

(n) When the flag is used to cover a casket, it should be so placed that the union is
at the head and over the left shoulder. The flag should not be lowered into the
grave or allowed to touch the ground.

(o) When the flag is suspended across a corridor or lobby in a building with only
one main entrance, it should be suspended vertically with the union of the flag
to the observer’s left upon entering. If the building has more than one main
entrance, the flag should be suspended vertically near the center of the corridor
or lobby with the union to the north, when entrances are to the east and west or
to the east when entrances are to the north and south. If there are entrances in
more than two directions, the union should be to the east.

[Nyteshade]

Originally Posted by xian

but he's a person still.... not a wall or flag pole

There is no rules that go specific to people. All of the flag rules have to do with fixed and moving objects. In the case of the Army, it is purely symbolic and they are the only branch to do it like that. On vehicles, it is allowed to be "backwards" compared to normal viewing because that is basically a rendition of the flag streaming behind it. When sitting down at a sporting event, you're basically a fixed object. In that case, the stars are supposed to be on the observer's left.

And, how is progress wrong, when the wind blows the flag the stars are going to be on the left one side of the pole or the other....


Kevin.... 7 year olds are not allowed to join Boy Scouts.... gotta be 10

Flags can be backwards because of the way they are supposed to be oriented based on what is carrying them. If a flag got mounted on a flagpole with the star field opposite the pole, it's backwards no matter which way the wind is blowing because flag etiquette requires the star pattern side to be the mounted side.

[Daryl]

Originally Posted by david austin

so a flag is considered 'mounted' if you have a point of reference in front and behind you?

would intended audience also be considered behind you... after all... this flag isnt a one sided object.


again... this is dumb.

I admit it is dumb, but Xian wouldn't have posted the rules if there weren't any (no matter how much everyone thinks he is really the leader of the New World Order or at least a good member in standing).



Both arguing sides have to cede at LEAST that part about the rules being in place. That is FACT.

[progress]

Originally Posted by david austin

again... this is dumb.

My ultimate point. This is simply another way for someone to try and hate on Bush (and there are a lot of other reasons that would be more worthy of arguing about).