Michell Obama's Speech

[Damnsammit]

Originally Posted by Ash

hhahaha no 5*20=100

5000 goes into 100,000 twenty times

mathtards

I U

[confucius]

Originally Posted by Robin T. Fine

Who says you have to give it all away? I understand where you're coming from, but it isn't as easy as you make it out to seem. Refusing to give money doesn't make these people want to be better humans. It's not going to make them want to try to raise their children how YOU were raised and made a living. The problem will still exist whether or not you give your money to assist. But that money does good things and if you can't see that, I feel sorry for you. I am happy you make enough money to live how you want and I realize you worked pretty hard to get there. Good job. Now you are where you want to be, and want to complain about the people who didn't work as hard as you? And not help them?

I would think somebody like you who worked really hard to get where they were in life, would appreciate how hard life is, and would be more willing to assist areas of the country that needed and relied on your help, and millions of other people like you.

So I started at the end and tracked back through what has transpired and for once I support Robin! I'm Sorry for the delay and thanks for the proper charts, but according to new evidence, Obama's plan seems like a very good method of taxation. U Free up necessary funding from taxing the rich more and taxing the poor less. I think it is a good thing [money could go to fix a deficit or something important like Health care...]. Albeit, finding a proper place to distribute the funds is more important. So what some people don't care about others in their own country... to help their neighbor and make sure the entire country has a chance, at a better life. I guess that's Darwin's Law and without helping thy neighbor "Only the strong survive."

And I must admit, I've worked TOO DAMN HARD! To not be where people like Merritt and xian sit. no offense gentlemen, but I'm jus being honest...

[confucius]

Originally Posted by Deff Gordon

yea... which is complete bullshit. the money has to come from somebody. all that would be doing is lining the dr's pockets and not solving anything. robbing peter to pay paul. really stupid idea. like i said, universal health care is NOT the answer.

so you would rather live in a nation like china. full of disease and bird flu due to the lack of strong immune systems. Universal health care might not be YOUR answer to the situation. Maybe you can show me a better way. I'm not very good at math but what I do know is utilitarian thinking. And doing what is best for the greatest number is VERY SANE thinking, u asshat!

I'm sorry, I just call it, like I see it. It cost me $420 dollars to have something removed from my ear @ the hospital, the last time I went! if the doctors pockets are not already lined by the insurance you receive for your efforts [which are wonderful in their edgeclub ways], then I don't know what I'm talking about. Dr.'s take a lot of time and study hard to practice a career that is much more difficult then mixing records, I must admit! Don't get me wrong, I love you, but I've never seen a doctorate of mixiology...

*edit*

I think that people in this country need to learn that we must take care of our house and worry about our own problems instead of worrying about what's going on in Iraq, Iran, Afghanistan and the like. Sure I support the troops, but I don't support war. I know this is kinda leftfield, but let me make a point. If we took half of the war budget over the years and applied it to UNIVERSAL HEALTHCARE perhaps. Would half of the war budget be enough to fund universal healthcare...my answer is affirmative. My point remains, as a nation we must learn that Peace starts from within and if there can be no peace in the individual, there can be no peace in world. Peace of mind, through universal healthcare for the body...seems like a good start for me! With a strong mind and a strong body, we can move mountains. With peace of the individual, peace of the family and peace of the nation itself...things should get better. Call me a utopian anarchist if you want, but I believe we can make this world better. Alas, i have to deal with a bunch of people who don't see things through my eyes. maybe one day...

[Deff Gordon]

Originally Posted by confucius

so you would rather live in a nation like china. full of disease and bird flu due to the lack of strong immune systems. Universal health care might not be YOUR answer to the situation. Maybe you can show me a better way. I'm not very good at math but what I do know is utilitarian thinking. And doing what is best for the greatest number is VERY SANE thinking, u asshat!

I'm sorry, I just call it, like I see it. It cost me $420 dollars to have something removed from my ear @ the hospital, the last time I went! if the doctors pockets are not already lined by the insurance you receive for your efforts [which are wonderful in their edgeclub ways], then I don't know what I'm talking about. Dr.'s take a lot of time and study hard to practice a career that is much more difficult then mixing records, I must admit! Don't get me wrong, I love you, but I've never seen a doctorate of mixiology...

dude. just because we don't have universal health care doesn't mean we will live like china. lol

as for tax the rich more? who do you think already pays the most? they do! much higher percentage rate... and they are the ones that have to keep the business afloat to keep you (and everybody else) employed... and pay all those taxes too. keep taxing them and they will be gone and then you lose more money in the long run. it's not hard for the wealthy to set up shop elsewhere while living here if they feel betrayed and taken advantage of. shit... everybody will move the main ops to dubai and keep their money.

[confucius]

Originally Posted by Deff Gordon

dude. just because we don't have universal health care doesn't mean we will live like china. lol

as for tax the rich more? who do you think already pays the most? they do! much higher percentage rate... and they are the ones that have to keep the business afloat to keep you (and everybody else) employed... and pay all those taxes too. keep taxing them and they will be gone and then you lose more money in the long run. it's not hard for the wealthy to set up shop elsewhere while living here if they feel betrayed and taken advantage of. shit... everybody will move the main ops to dubai and keep their money.

fuck em'. missing a bigger picture...

[Deff Gordon]

Originally Posted by confucius

fuck em'. missing a bigger picture...

just because you are pissed at them for having more money doesn't mean they should hand it all over and pay your way too. they already pay around a few thousand times the amount you do. piss them off and watch the economy dry the fuck up when they move more big businesses to countries that have those shelters.

as for the "tax plan" you need to re-read the delusional parts. i made a great analogy with the old vs. new iphone. it puts in in plain english and from my math, i'm paying more with what is proposed... and I'm FAR from wealthy. make it look good on one end and sneak more on the back end...

[confucius]

I'm not pissed at them. If I was say, like Bill Gates, i would give freely to help others. Albeit, I would be more concerned with fixing what is here and now. you keep talking about the businesses, but I thought we were talking about taxing the individual?

Regardless, if I was at a place like yourself or even the level of Scientologist nutbag Tom Cruise, I wouldn't mind giving...if I knew what the $$$ was going towards...CHANGE! Maybe this isn't Obama's plan, maybe I'm reading things differently, but one thing I'm not is delusional. We first need to get back to stable ground, not a deficit...in order to begin to right the country. Sure make it look good on one end and sneak more on the back end...isn't that what this country is about. Turn@round or turnabout is fair play and some profit margins from these businesses you speak of, are ASTRONOMIKAL! There has to be a proper system of checks and balances and if we can receive that through taxation, instead of simply a proper donation, then let it be...

[PETA]

Originally Posted by GreyArea

Back your bullshit claim up with sources or STFU! Your colon is not a valid source.

Explain how all people making $225 to $603 will each see only +/- $12 to their income taxes.

I offered a reasonable alternative to an unreasonable number.

Your source is the thing that seems in error - well - not seems. Actually, you've already conceded that it is in error we're just trying to figure out how much in error.

Originally Posted by HomoQueer

i'm afraid most folks are stuck in the emotional bs of this year's election.

When a VP candidate's introduction centers strongly on a personal tragedy from 36 years ago it would appear that the focus on emotion is intentional. Who cannot acknowledge the pain andf tragedy that poor family went through? But how important is it to his qualifications for VP?

Originally Posted by Deff Gordon

who do you think already pays the most? they do! much higher percentage rate...

http://www.ntu.org/main/page.php?PageID=6

the top 1% of wage earners paid nearly 40% of all presonal income tax revenues for 2006 and the bottom 50% paid 3% of the dollars collected.

Originally Posted by Deff Gordon

just because you are pissed at them for having more money doesn't mean they should hand it all over and pay your way too. they already pay around a few thousand times the amount you do. piss them off and watch the economy dry the fuck up when they move more big businesses to countries that have those shelters.

2 anecdotal examples

As California raised its income tax levels the number of millionaires in California dropped precipitously. Several reasons: the dot com bubble burst, the tax knocked some people out of the bracket and th number one reason..... they moved to avoid draconian taxation schemes.

There used to be a thriving high end yacht business in south Florida. Florida got the idea to impose a hefty luxury tax on the industry..... who sailed their boats to the Bahamas who now has a thriving yacht industry and Florida lost an emplyer and tax payer.

Soak the rich taxes are intended to transfer wealth and punish success. That's anathama to the American way but it is decidedly Marxist, "From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs"

[GreyArea]

Originally Posted by xian

Explain how all people making $225 to $603 will each see only +/- $12 to their income taxes.

It's not that hard, and has been explained to you already. Obama is not planning on making much of a change to your tax bracket. Hence the small change of 12 dollars. It's not that hard of a concept, and has been explained to you already.

Originally Posted by xian

I offered a reasonable alternative to an unreasonable number.

You made up shit because it sounded better and it helped you further your bogus attack.

Originally Posted by xian

Your source is the thing that seems in error - well - not seems. Actually, you've already conceded that it is in error we're just trying to figure out how much in error.

I conceded that someone used a +$12 instead of an -$12 and you use that little inconsistency to claim a $12,000 change in taxes. That's quite a leap, but one you choose to make to support your bogus claims. There was a typo as someone else entered it into there site ( the first link). The data from the Tax Policy Center is not wrong, even if you think it's unreasonable. You are the only one trying to figure out how much in error it is, the rest of us don't have our head up the elephants ass. Again I have sources to back up my claim, your just making shit up.

[PETA]

Originally Posted by GreyArea

It's not that hard, and has been explained to you already. Obama is not planning on making much of a change to your tax bracket. Hence the small change of 12 dollars. It's not that hard of a concept, and has been explained to you already.

If there is no change to the bracket it is still untenable to suggest that some one making $250K will see the identical rise in taxes as some one making $600k. For the resulting tax increase to be identical with disparate AGI you need a flat tax across the entire range. However, we don't tax that way - we use rates which means the number makes no sense.

Originally Posted by GreyArea

You made up shit because it sounded better and it helped you further your bogus attack.

I offered the illustration because yes, it looked better than the alternative.

Originally Posted by GreyArea

I conceded that someone used a +$12 instead of an -$12 and you use that little inconsistency to claim a $12,000 change in taxes. That's quite a leap, but one you choose to make to support your bogus claims. There was a typo as someone else entered it into there site ( the first link). The data from the Tax Policy Center is not wrong, even if you think it's unreasonable. You are the only one trying to figure out how much in error it is, the rest of us don't have our head up the elephants ass. Again I have sources to back up my claim, your just making shit up.

how eloquently stated

[GreyArea]

Originally Posted by xian

If there is no change to the bracket it is still untenable to suggest that some one making $250K will see the identical rise in taxes as some one making $600k. For the resulting tax increase to be identical with disparate AGI you need a flat tax across the entire range. However, we don't tax that way - we use rates which means the number makes no sense.

Nice diverting tactic there. The original issue was you claiming a $12,00 income tax increase, which is untrue.

Originally Posted by xian

I offered the illustration because yes, it looked better than the alternative.

The alternative being the facts.

Originally Posted by xian

how eloquently stated

How cute to resort to ad hominem attacks.

[PETA]

Originally Posted by GreyArea

Nice diverting tactic there. The original issue was you claiming a $12,00 income tax increase, which is untrue.

I offered $1200 as well. I'm not diverting I picked 12 with the addition of 2 or 3 zeros because the chart started with the number 12. I suggested that $12 was unlikely for the reasons previously stated. Reasons you've not addressed.

allow me to illustrate again:

That tax bracket is, iirc a 33% bracket. The tax on $250k AGI will not be the same as the tax on $603k AGI. To say that Obama's plan will increase the tax bill of some one making $250k AGI and $603k AGI by the same amount makes little sense. But apparently you think it does and we can leave it at that.

Originally Posted by GreyArea

The alternative being the facts.

which we've already agreed are inaccurately reported... and which I've pointed out fail to account for how greatly disparate AGIs would see the exact same increase in tax liability. Something that apparently does not concern you because you have a nice colorful chart to refer to.... who cares that it doesn't make any sense.... its nice and purdy.

Originally Posted by GreyArea

How cute to resort to ad hominem attacks.

After the language you've been using it seemed appropriate to respond in kind.

[I AM EL-NINO]

Originally Posted by confucius

I'm not pissed at them. If I was say, like Bill Gates, i would give freely to help others. Albeit, I would be more concerned with fixing what is here and now. you keep talking about the businesses, but I thought we were talking about taxing the individual?

Regardless, if I was at a place like yourself or even the level of Scientologist nutbag Tom Cruise, I wouldn't mind giving...if I knew what the $$$ was going towards...CHANGE! Maybe this isn't Obama's plan, maybe I'm reading things differently, but one thing I'm not is delusional. We first need to get back to stable ground, not a deficit...in order to begin to right the country. Sure make it look good on one end and sneak more on the back end...isn't that what this country is about. Turn@round or turnabout is fair play and some profit margins from these businesses you speak of, are ASTRONOMIKAL! There has to be a proper system of checks and balances and if we can receive that through taxation, instead of simply a proper donation, then let it be...

Universal Health care does not work.
And Bill Gates gives away millions every year.
AS do most uber rich folks out there.

Originally Posted by confucius

For an average Caucasian male to go to Princeton and Harvard is privileged by all definitions...

For Michelle to do it...is EXTRAORDINARY!

This is not 1910, it is not extraordinary. Plenty of proletarian people work hard and do without to send their kids to better schools, and while no one has mentioned Michell's pre-college education, I highly doubt she had to rally the community to get accepted into an Ivy League college. Usually something of a preparatory school education is required before even being considered.