delta force officer recalls bin laden hunt..

[KING SIZE]

watch the video if possible.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/...n4494937.shtml

[PeterS]

Honestly, his story isn't much different from other government spooks conducting black ops. I've heard stories of how other "leaders" were in certain cross hairs and whatnot. Him going around shopping the story to the press and writing books is a bit unlike the behavior of a former Delta.

[KING SIZE]

Originally Posted by PeterS

Honestly, his story isn't much different from other government spooks conducting black ops. I've heard stories of how other "leaders" were in certain cross hairs and whatnot. Him going around shopping the story to the press and writing books is a bit unlike the behavior of a former Delta.

i'd agree on his behavior, but while it may be an attempt for him to cash in.. it's likely also to vindicate himself and his peers as to why bin laden was not caught.

regardless of his underlying reasons though, if he is former delta his opinion is highly credible, especially as a delta officer. many many many of seasoned special forces soldiers have not made the cut when trying out for delta. those guys aren't just hard, they are the definition of it. the ultimate professionals. i definately believe him when he was pointing out that should he and his guys have been given the go ahead to get bin laden with their initial plans, they would've likely succeeded.

[PeterS]

Originally Posted by KING SIZE

many many many of seasoned special forces soldiers have not made the cut when trying out for delta. those guys aren't just hard, they are the definition of it. the ultimate professionals. i definately believe him when he was pointing out that should he and his guys have been given the go ahead to get bin laden with their initial plans, they would've likely succeeded.

No argument here. I read Charles Beckwith's (founder of Delta Force) book back in High School and knew what kind soldiers Delta pretty much comprises of.

From what I recall EVEN BACK THEN Beckwith was vocal about his fustrations with high command and the ludicrous expectations of the top brass when it came to Delta.
I think the highlight of those fustrations, or should I say lowlight, was the failed hostage rescue fiasco in Iran.

[KING SIZE]

Originally Posted by PeterS

No argument here. I read Charles Beckwith's (founder of Delta Force) book back in High School and knew what kind soldiers Delta pretty much comprises of.

From what I recall EVEN BACK THEN Beckwith was vocal about his fustrations with high command and the ludicrous expectations of the top brass when it came to Delta.
I think the highlight of those fustrations, or should I say lowlight, was the failed hostage rescue fiasco in Iran.

yeah.. that definately didn't go well for delta. only problem was it had nothing to do with them. from what i remember, they struggled to maintain funding/respect/etc even though the situation was out of their control. how do you stop an accidental crash.. that was just shitty circumstance.

[PETA]

Originally Posted by KING SIZE

how do you stop an accidental crash.. that was just shitty circumstance.

give the army enough money to keep their helicopters well maintained?

[PeterS]

Originally Posted by St. Stalin the Apathetic

give the army enough money to keep their helicopters well maintained?

I don't think it was even that. One of the helo's rotors struck the side of a refueling airship. The rest of the gunships being so close together on that field exploded alongside with it. It was definitely a mess and some serious egg on the face of the United States. The operation itself was a bit nutto.
They were just going to drive up to the embassy and start taking out bad guys Steven Segal style.

[PETA]

Originally Posted by PeterS

I don't think it was even that. One of the helo's rotors struck the side of a refueling airship. The rest of the gunships being so close together on that field exploded alongside with it. It was definitely a mess and some serious egg on the face of the United States. The operation itself was a bit nutto.
They were just going to drive up to the embassy and start taking out bad guys Steven Segal style.

why did Perot's rescue attempt work?

[zerojunkie]

Yeah, we didn't have anything with the range necessary to carry out the mission. So they had to resort to audacious plans like attaching rockets fore and aft of a C130 to let it take off and land in a soccer stadium. The Osprey is the only aircraft that would've been able to accomplish the mission and it has only recently entered service.

[PeterS]

Originally Posted by St. Stalin the Apathetic

why did Perot's rescue attempt work?

Uhm because cash doesn't necessarily guarantee success. I can't believe we're arguing this. All the money in the world isn't going to stop high winds, and a pilot who happens to accidentally veer too far to the left.

The Perot sponsored mission was completely different both logistically and in its execution. Two different scenarios, lots less hostages in one, a lot more in the other, chaotic elements exploited in one, suprise run and gun in the other, etc etc.

[david austin]

we sent the wrong team

[PETA]

Originally Posted by PeterS

Uhm because cash doesn't necessarily guarantee success. I can't believe we're arguing this.

Me either because I asked a question about something I'm not terribly familiar with - I didn't make or start an argument.

Originally Posted by PeterS

All the money in the world isn't going to stop high winds, and a pilot who happens to accidentally veer too far to the left.

I didn't ask why the Army mission failed - you explained that. I asked what made Perot's mission succeed

Originally Posted by PeterS

The Perot sponsored mission was completely different both logistically and in its execution. Two different scenarios, lots less hostages in one, a lot more in the other, chaotic elements exploited in one, suprise run and gun in the other, etc etc.

so scale is one element the others are etc etc etc then?

I wasn't fucking w/you I was asking what I thought was a reasonable question.

[PeterS]

Ah, I apologize.

From the bit that I've read, Perot's team thought not only out of the box but outside of the standard military MO. They were really smart about it.
Beckwith saw the future and knew it would take something completely different from the snake eater hiding in the jungle to take on the scenarios that were to arise during the 80's. Unfortunately for him he took what the government gave him, (C-130 gunships, dirtbikes and large squads of trained men) as well as the headache pressure of the higher ups that he still operate like some crazed bat out of hell commando group.

[>]

I never know WHAT to believe anymore, when I'm watching the news. It really sucks.

[Dionysos]

It's at this point I'd like to reiterate how awesome the book 'Not a Good Day to Die' by Sean Naylor is. It recounts the entirety of Operation Anaconda and the months leading up to it, and the level of detail is amazing. This guy wasn't talking about that mission, but they had a lot of the same issues.