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tricky · 10-08-08, 09:20 PM

you be the decide

PETA · 10-08-08, 09:23 PM

lol - wtf do you know about Machiavelli

But let me make this thread short... damn right I think his poltical realist perspective counts... I believe Real Politik works too.

Edit: Another thing, I'm sure you're thinking that what I meant was not at all what I do mean. Check out the Discourses on Livy.... not the Prince. He discusses model for a Republic that focus on checks and balances.

tricky · 10-08-08, 09:54 PM

hahha just bored and been reading....

PETA · 10-08-08, 10:04 PM

I was serious - check out the discourses. Keep in mind they were written 500 years ago but they outline the basic concepts and preference for a constitutional republic complete with a system of checks and balances to avoid abuse of power.

tricky · 10-08-08, 10:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by St. Stalin the Apathetic

I was serious - check out the discourses. Keep in mind they were written 500 years ago but they outline the basic concepts and preference for a constitutional republic complete with a system of checks and balances to avoid abuse of power.

and hobbes came up with the social contract that locke expanded on that now bush is pissing on.....

PETA · 10-08-08, 10:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tricky

and hobbes came up with the social contract that locke expanded on that now bush is pissing on.....

haha - yeah something like that - but Hobbes believed in a despotic leader and denied any right of revolution. His era is important to his thinking - the civil war (or series of them) were pretty brutal with Charles I loosing his head. There was great tension between the protestants and the catholics etc etc it was a messy time in England

tricky · 10-08-08, 10:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by St. Stalin the Apathetic

haha - yeah something like that - but Hobbes believed in a despotic leader and denied any right of revolution. His era is important to his thinking - the civil war (or series of them) were pretty brutal with Charles I loosing his head. There was great tension between the protestants and the catholics etc etc it was a messy time in England

Hobbes posited that the security of the population was reason to entrust leadership in one person (monarch) to provide that security. This was a shift from the machiavelli position of exerting power just to keep people in line. w way street...

PETA · 10-08-08, 10:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tricky

Hobbes posited that the security of the population was reason to entrust leadership in one person (monarch) to provide that security. This was a shift from the machiavelli position of exerting power just to keep people in line. w way street...

I tend to have the reverse opinion of the two. There was a duty going both ways with Hobbes but the king pretty much was the only one who really had any authority - the divine right of kings (see the Stuarts) and benign despotism were extensions of Hobbesian thinking or rather intertwined. Machiavelli was big on the notion of individual liberty and that those entrusted with the reins of government had a duty to protect that liberty.... but its been a long time since I did any serious reading on this

Delfonic · 10-08-08, 11:20 PM

welcome to political philosopy

BradH · 10-08-08, 11:29 PM

get a room!

MacGyver · 10-09-08, 01:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by St. Stalin the Apathetic

I was serious - check out the discourses. Keep in mind they were written 500 years ago but they outline the basic concepts and preference for a constitutional republic complete with a system of checks and balances to avoid abuse of power.

It gets me so hot when you talk like that.

PS. I love John Locke, he is a bad ass.

Hey Bubu · 10-09-08, 11:17 AM

Johann Adam Weishaup for President!!!

10-08-08, 09:23 PM	#2 (permalink)
PETA an apparition Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 38,627	lol - wtf do you know about Machiavelli But let me make this thread short... damn right I think his poltical realist perspective counts... I believe Real Politik works too. Edit: Another thing, I'm sure you're thinking that what I meant was not at all what I do mean. Check out the Discourses on Livy.... not the Prince. He discusses model for a Republic that focus on checks and balances. Last edited by PETA; 10-08-08 at 09:29 PM.

10-08-08, 11:20 PM	#9 (permalink)
Delfonic Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 8,762	welcome to political philosopy __________________

10-09-08, 11:17 AM	#12 (permalink)
Hey Bubu Funky Spunk Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: take a left at the cow Posts: 17,124	Johann Adam Weishaup for President!!! __________________ "We're so engaged in doing things to achieve purposes of outer value that we forget that the inner value, the rapture that is associated with being alive, is what it's all about." --Joseph Campbell,

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10-08-08, 10:04 PM	#4 (permalink)
PETA an apparition Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 38,627	I was serious - check out the discourses. Keep in mind they were written 500 years ago but they outline the basic concepts and preference for a constitutional republic complete with a system of checks and balances to avoid abuse of power.