Secession: could it work?

[john vella]

which state(s) could survive as their own nation were they to secede?

let's discuss.

john

[Hey Bubu]

Maybe California, is this full secession or are we talking about Quebec style secession where they want all the benefits (currency, federal security etc, etc) but none of the participation?

[Sinner]

only w/ Chuck Norris as prez

[john vella]

Originally Posted by Porkchop Avenger

Maybe California, is this full secession or are we talking about Quebec style secession where they want all the benefits (currency, federal security etc, etc) but none of the participation?

no ya, kanuk! i'm talking full on sovereign nation secession. i would think it would certainly have to be a state with a coastline/port cities for sure and a good cross-section of industries. but what else would it need?

Originally Posted by NoKegger4U

only w/ Chuck Norris as prez

ha haaa. sneeky thread origin reference achieved.

john

[johnny861]

I think there would be too many problems for it to work.

Each state is so interwoven into the fabric of the US, that it would be very difficult to seperate, such as interstate commerce, energy, transportation and of course any federal services that would have to be severed.

Federal properties would also be a matter of dispute.

Would probably have at least a decade of problems before the independent state could even start to get a real infrastructure in place.


I think it would require a collapse of the federal government, before a state could truly secede with any chance of success.

[zymote]

New York, Texas, and California seem like the best bets. Alaska would probably do fine too, and it wouldn't be like we'd miss 'em.

[Kiri]

texas is the only state that has the right to secede, though, isn't it?

[tricky]

last time this happened we had the Civil War. (which was more about keeping the union together than the actual act of slavery....)

[johnny861]

Originally Posted by Kiri

texas is the only state that has the right to secede, though, isn't it?

Actually, no states have a right to secede.

[PETA]

Originally Posted by Kiri

texas is the only state that has the right to secede, though, isn't it?

Johnny is right. Its a common misunderstanding. TX can split into 5 states if it wishes though.

The civil war put an end to any notion that a state could leave the Union w/out consent of the other states. Now, if a state tried, the Union would have to act to prevent or the secession would be effective de facto. Getting de jure recognition may be another matter.

Also, there's a case on point that settled the issue as a matter of law. I'll see if I can find it.

Originally Posted by john vella

which state(s) could survive as their own nation were they to secede?

let's discuss.

john

Cali, Oregon and Washinton: They have huge naval ports and transpacific trade shipping is the world's trade super highway. They'd be fine. ID would probably tag along.

Utah: want to fuck with a bunch of Mormons who'd certainly arm themselves to the hilt?

Nevada: Vegas and Reno would keep the state afloat

Texas: Texas is Texas. NM and AZ would tag along - OK probably too.

Minnesota, Wisconsin, Illinois, Michigan and Ohio: The'd control the Great Lakes as well as the upper Mississippi, Ohio and Missouri Rivers all vital to getting bread basket states' grain and beef to market. So you can add MT, WY, the Dakotas, MO, CO, KS and NE.

The Eastern Seaboard: PA, NY, NJ big ports, big cities lots of industry and financial businesses to keep it afloat. I suppose Maryland and DE would join with them.

New England? They can make artisan cheese and join up with Canada.

Souther Eastern Seaboard: Virginia is home to the Atlantic based carrier fleet so they have to guns to protect the coastal states and the states east of the Mississippi and south of the Ohio River would get lumped in.

HI has the firepower and tourism dollars to suceed.

AK: no clue

Originally Posted by Porkchop Avenger

Maybe California, is this full secession or are we talking about Quebec style secession where they want all the benefits (currency, federal security etc, etc) but none of the participation?

See... complicating things unnecessarily Nando

[john vella]

Originally Posted by St. Stalin the Apathetic

The civil war put an end to any notion that a state could leave the Union w/out consent of the other states.

so how would that work? if a state really did want out, how would they go about getting the consent of the others?

what if rhode island wanted out? they don't have much going on that the rest of the states would want to keep inside the union (i.e. military bases, financial capitols, etc.) the rest of the states might say, "yeah, go head R.I. we can just add in puerto rico to keep us as an even 50."

[Kiri]

Originally Posted by St. Stalin the Apathetic

Johnny is right. Its a common misunderstanding. TX can split into 5 states if it wishes though.

you're right. did some of my own research and it's just an urban legend, so to speak.

hey, you learn something new every day.

[PETA]

Originally Posted by john vella

so how would that work? if a state really did want out, how would they go about getting the consent of the others?

what if rhode island wanted out? they don't have much going on that the rest of the states would want to keep inside the union (i.e. military bases, financial capitols, etc.) the rest of the states might say, "yeah, go head R.I. we can just add in puerto rico to keep us as an even 50."

I think RI may have some submarine building facilities. But the actual process for secession I have no clue. It's never been done before without war.

[Hey Bubu]

Originally Posted by St. Stalin the Apathetic

New England? They can make artisan cheese and join up with Canada.

FOOTBALL AND CRAB CAKES. YEAH!!!

See... complicating things unnecessarily Nando

[Funkenstein]

Originally Posted by St. Stalin the Apathetic

It's never been done before without war.

Ummm. Isn't all it takes is a declaration and a quick writ to Washington to split?

It doesn't make it irrevocable, but it does make it official (if sent by the governing body of the state), no?

Going by that logic, the American Revolution and the Civil War were both started by justification alone and then LED to war, not warring to GO to war.