Iranian election fun

[Deff Gordon]

Originally Posted by molecule

bro i was watching footage of government officials shooting at protesters on the first day of the protests. sorry you missed it.

that's not true. it didn't start till the end of last week. maybe they were doing it undercover (nobody knows for sure)... but *all* reports from *all* news organizations. even the WSJ (which i read daily) had an article on how the government was allowing the protests to go on peacefully and one of the reasons they we allowing that was probably due to the fact that 30 years ago when the Shah cracked down on the protests, it just made them more angry.

[FarangBa]

Originally Posted by Deff Gordon

um dude... you should watch the footage. ain't fake. hell.. turn on the TV... any news organization of your choosing is talking about Neda right NOW.

Broadcast Yourself.

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the government is killing people over there right now...

This video is much different than the other posted with the sappy music.

Nope..
Didn't say they weren't killing people
Didn't say Neda (specifically) wasn't shot
Didn't say I don't back the Iranians 100%



And, unfortunately.. it seems that the girl was shot by a stray bullet standing on the side of the road (Horrible, but vs. Being shot point blank in the face by the IRGC-- Quite Different!)

[FarangBa]

Originally Posted by tricky

Did anyone call Reagan a coward for doing nothing while the Soviets were killing the Afghanis? How about Darfur or the Iraqi civilians killed under Bush's war. Bush sat by and let them be killed due to his & Rumsfeld's incompetence.



So much outrage....so much hypocrisy.

OMG, did you say Reagan did nothing? I thought your side's position was that if it wasn't for us arming the Mujahideen against the Russians, 9/11 would've never happened? Al Qaeda would've never happened.. etc.!

and about the Iraqi Civilian deaths... are you aware of how many hundreds of thousands of Iraqi civilians were killed by Saddam Hussein's regime. What about the fact that the majority of those killed since 2003, were killed by mujahideen terrorists, Shi'ite vs. Sunni fighting, tribal warfare and plain old... criminal activity.

[molecule]

Originally Posted by Deff Gordon

that's not true. it didn't start till the end of last week. maybe they were doing it undercover (nobody knows for sure)... but *all* reports from *all* news organizations. even the WSJ (which i read daily) had an article on how the government was allowing the protests to go on peacefully and one of the reasons they we allowing that was probably due to the fact that 30 years ago when the Shah cracked down on the protests, it just made them more angry.

Mon Jun 15, 7:51 pm ET

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090615/..._iran_election

Standing on a roof, gunmen opened fire on a group of protesters who had tried to storm a pro-government militia's compound. One man was killed and several others were wounded in the worst violence since the disputed election Friday.

It appeared that Iran's ruling clerics had opened the door for the demonstration — even giving it news coverage — in a possible bid to avoid more street clashes and seek some breathing room in the growing confrontation.

(this what your referring to?)

But a single moment could change all that. Gunfire erupted from a compound used by the Basij, a volunteer militia linked to Iran's powerful Revolutionary Guard. An Associated Press photographer saw at least one demonstrator killed and several others with what appeared to be serious wounds.

[FarangBa]

Originally Posted by St. Stalin the Apathetic

Your grasp of history is not so good. Next time try to find examples that help support your point rather than completely undermine it.

My sentiments exactly. If your gonna spout the talking points from Code Pink or Michael Moore or Cindy Sheehan... at least research them first.

[FarangBa]

And... what the hell happened to the Rubber Bullets?

The Communist News Network was reporting just this morning that they were being shot at with rubber bullets and teargas.

[tricky]

Originally Posted by Passenja

Racist. I've attended plenty and know enough to not go anymore. The girls are hawt but they don't always bath (at least not the ones in San Deigo when I went.




Are you new to this country? I don't get it.???

racist how? No i'm not new. Do you see your hypocricy?

Originally Posted by St. Stalin the Apathetic

You are aware that we sent them tons of aid and weapons which were fundamentally important in turning the tide in the war. Our weapons limited the Soviet use of helicopters to a point where the locals could use terrain etc to hector the Soviets until they finally said, "fuck it" and left. It was called Operation Cyclone and cost billions of US dollars between 1979 and 1989. Reagan did far from nothing.



Americans were the first to call what was going on genocide. Bush called it that in 2005 when the UN was tip-toeing around the word. Where was the UN? Where was X Y Z?



The greatest percentage of which were killed by AQI, insurgents or by themselves in terror-operations.



Your grasp of history is not so good. Next time try to find examples that help support your point rather than completely undermine it.

The U.S. government has been criticized for allowing Pakistan to channel a disproportionate amount of its funding to controversial Afghan resistance leader Gulbuddin Hekmatyar,[18] who Pakistani officials believed was "their man".[19] Hekmatyar has been criticized for killing other mujahideen and attacking civilian populations, including shelling Kabul with American-supplied weapons, causing 2,000 casualties. Hekmatyar was said to be friendly with Osama bin Laden, founder of al-Qaeda, who was running an operation for assisting "Afghan Arab" volunteers fighting in Afghanistan, called Maktab al-Khadamat. Alarmed by his behavior, Pakistan leader General Zia warned Hekmatyar, "It was Pakistan that made him an Afghan leader and it is Pakistan who can equally destroy him if he continues to misbehave."[20]
In the late 1980s, Pakistani prime minister Benazir Bhutto, concerned about the growing strength of the Islamist movement, told President George H. W. Bush, "You are creating a Frankenstein."[21]
The U.S. says that all of its funds went to native Afghan rebels and denies that any of its funds were used to supply Osama bin Laden or foreign Arab mujahideen. It is estimated that 35,000 foreign Muslims from 43 Islamic countries participated in the war.[22][23][24][25]

funding one group that goes on to somewhat support our interests while still killing civillians. Great idea! Not suprised at all you're enamored with it.

As to Darfur...

What exactly did Bush's statement re darfur do?

It accomplished the same thing Neville err Obama did today when he condemned the violence. Nothing. I don't see Obama offering Israel to Iran so maybe you should reread some 1930's history.

[J. Fees]

anybody seen this yet?

http://channel.nationalgeographic.co...-3337/Overview

came on late last nite, def worth watching.

[Deff Gordon]

Originally Posted by molecule

Mon Jun 15, 7:51 pm ET

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090615/..._iran_election

Standing on a roof, gunmen opened fire on a group of protesters who had tried to storm a pro-government militia's compound. One man was killed and several others were wounded in the worst violence since the disputed election Friday.

It appeared that Iran's ruling clerics had opened the door for the demonstration — even giving it news coverage — in a possible bid to avoid more street clashes and seek some breathing room in the growing confrontation.

(this what your referring to?)

But a single moment could change all that. Gunfire erupted from a compound used by the Basij, a volunteer militia linked to Iran's powerful Revolutionary Guard. An Associated Press photographer saw at least one demonstrator killed and several others with what appeared to be serious wounds.

those are against people storming a compound or government building. try storming the US Capitol or White House and i'm sure you'll be met with the same fate.

totally different from opening fire on people shouting in the streets at a rally (which didn't start till the end of last week).

so you see the difference?

[molecule]

Originally Posted by Deff Gordon

those are against people storming a compound or government building. try storming the US Capitol or White House and i'm sure you'll be met with the same fate.

totally different from opening fire on people shouting in the streets at a rally (which didn't start till the end of last week).

so you see the difference?

i see the difference in language. two people try to bash in a door and they fire on the crowd of protesters randomly is what i saw in the video on the day it happened. but go ahead and give the basij the benefit of the doubt if you want. it's no matter. do a little research on what the basij actually fucking is and see if your comparison to the White House is founded.

and my statement you quoted was true, thanks!

[PETA]

Originally Posted by tricky

funding one group that goes on to somewhat support our interests while still killing civillians. Great idea! Not suprised at all you're enamored with it.

Enamored? I simply pointed out your complete ignorance of the events you referred to. Civillians die in every war. That's tragedy. But the mujahadeen weren't so much interested in killing civillians as they were in killing Soviets. The Soviets didn't have much discretion. Again, you have no clue what you're talking about and should have cut your losses and stfu rather than continuing to demonstrate why you've no business in this discussion.

Originally Posted by tricky

As to Darfur...

What exactly did Bush's statement re darfur do?

You implied he did nothing which is untrue. His comments raised awareness and outrage around the planet. You expected him to send in ninjas and shit to clean up the janjaweed? You were outraged at his use of troops elsewhere in every instance. Had he sent in troops to the Sudan you'd have found reason to bitch about that too.

Originally Posted by tricky

It accomplished the same thing Neville err Obama did today when he condemned the violence. Nothing. I don't see Obama offering Israel to Iran so maybe you should reread some 1930's history.

Again, stop while you're behind. The greatest failure wasn't giving away some one else's territory but failing to recognize the nature of the threat he was confronted with and that such an offer would only embolden the aggressor. So too has Obama seemed unwilling to recognize some foreign powers' motives for what they are.

[PETA]

Originally Posted by J. Fees

anybody seen this yet?

http://channel.nationalgeographic.co...-3337/Overview

came on late last nite, def worth watching.

Interesting when you consider that the Shah had sent troops to southern Lebanon in order to protect Israel from Palestinian fighters. Illustrates how radical the swing can be in such a short time. See Amir Taheri, The Persian Night

[Deff Gordon]

Originally Posted by molecule

i see the difference in language. two people try to bash in a door and they fire on the crowd of protesters randomly is what i saw in the video on the day it happened. but go ahead and give the basij the benefit of the doubt if you want. it's no matter. do a little research on what the basij actually fucking is and see if your comparison to the White House is founded.

and my statement you quoted was true, thanks!

well... if the US was structured like Iran and had government militia buildings, and they were stormed by a group of people protesting, they would get shot too!!!

what you are saying and the story you are providing as backup aren't saying the same things. they didn't open fire on a rally in the streets... they opened fire on a group storming a government sponsored group surrounding their spiritual leader. I know very well what the Basij is.

fuck... try storming the catholic church's compound at the Vatican and see what happens.

again, you're talking about 2 different things. in which case, i've already shown you where you are wrong.

what is happening over there right now is horrible. they didn't start shooting at people on the streets peacefully protesting on day one like you are claiming.. totally not true. again, storming a government building vs. protesting in the streets are 2 different things. that's the difference that i'm talking about.

[FarangBa]

Originally Posted by tricky

did anyone call reagan a coward for doing nothing while the soviets were killing the afghanis?

vs

the u.s. Government has been criticized for allowing pakistan to channel a disproportionate amount of its funding to controversial afghan resistance leader gulbuddin hekmatyar,[18] who pakistani officials believed was "their man".[19] hekmatyar has been criticized for killing other mujahideen and attacking civilian populations, including shelling kabul with american-supplied weapons, causing 2,000 casualties. Hekmatyar was said to be friendly with osama bin laden, founder of al-qaeda, who was running an operation for assisting "afghan arab" volunteers fighting in afghanistan, called maktab al-khadamat. Alarmed by his behavior, pakistan leader general zia warned hekmatyar, "it was pakistan that made him an afghan leader and it is pakistan who can equally destroy him if he continues to misbehave."[20]
in the late 1980s, pakistani prime minister benazir bhutto, concerned about the growing strength of the islamist movement, told president george h. W. Bush, "you are creating a frankenstein."[21]
the u.s. Says that all of its funds went to native afghan rebels and denies that any of its funds were used to supply osama bin laden or foreign arab mujahideen. It is estimated that 35,000 foreign muslims from 43 islamic countries participated in the war.[22][23][24][25]

vs

Originally Posted by tricky

funding one group that goes on to somewhat support our interests while still killing civillians. Great idea! Not suprised at all you're enamored with it.

Huh?
Did Reagan do nothing, or are we doing nothing, or are we funding a group, are we not funding a group. Which is it?

Take your pick..

[molecule]

tuesday of last week, day four:

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124517352053619629.html

Late Tuesday, fresh violence erupted. As thousands gathered in and around Vanak Square, located in northern Tehran and the site of bloody rallies the previous nights, a group of plainclothes militia dressed in black and riding motorcycles approached the crowd.

They waved their batons in the air as protesters yelled for help and many people standing on the sidewalks began running away. Suddenly, the militia opened fire at the crowd and shot a young man in the neck.

Blood gushed out of his wound as he pressed his palms on his neck and color drained from his face. A young man and woman grabbed his arms and dragged him to a side street along with about a dozen young protesters. An apartment door was open and the fleeing crowd was forcing their way inside.

"He's been shot, he's been shot. Help. Help," screamed one man. The injured young man couldn't speak. His mouth kept opening but no words came out.