Israeli PM calls for creation of Palestinian state

[name change request]

Netanyahu accepts limited Palestinian state

JERUSALEM – Israeli Prime Minister Netanyahu on Sunday called for creation of a limited Palestinian state for the first time, saying it would have to be disarmed.

Netanyahu made the call during a major policy speech about his Mideast peacemaking intentions.

"In any peace agreement, the territory under Palestinian control must be disarmed, with solid security guarantees for Israel," he said.

"If we get this guarantee for demilitarization and necessary security arrangements for Israel, and if the Palestinians recognize Israel as the state of the Jewish people, we will be willing in a real peace agreement to reach a solution of a demilitarized Palestinian state alongside the Jewish state," he said.

Up to now Netanyahu has resisted endorsing the creation of a Palestinian state as part of a Mideast peace settlement, drawing intense pressure from the administration of President Barack Obama.

Netanyahu also said the Palestinians must recognize Israel as a Jewish state, and he declared that the solution of the Palestinian refugee problem must be "outside Israel."
Palestinians claim that refugees from the 1948-49 war that followed Israel's creation and their millions of descendants have the right to reclaim their original homes.

"I call on you, our Palestinian neighbors, and to the leadership of the Palestinian Authority: Let us begin peace negotiations immediately, without preconditions," he said. "Israel is committed to international agreements and expects all the other parties to fulfill their obligations as well."

Netanyahu also called for Arab leaders to meet him and contribute to Palestinian economic development.

[name change request]

it's pretty funny that he wants peace talks to begin again without preconditions and yet he is placing preconditions on them...

but at least it's a small step in the right direction.

[PETA]

The Israelis have been willing to trade land for peace for a long time.

They gave them Gaza as a first step - they forced their own settlers out and handed over the keys.

[PETA]

here's that article I mentioned (somewhere)

Mr. Nordlinger's multipart journal from the World Economic Forum on the Middle East can be found at www.nationalreview.com/middleeastjournal09

'All the gaps are bridgeable': what a PLO man and an Israeli think of peace between their sides

The Dead Sea, Jordan

I FIRST saw them together in Davos, two years ago. Saeb Erekat was chief negotiator for the PLO; Ephraim Sneh was the chief negotiator for Israel. They were like an old married couple, finishing each other's sentences. But, unlike many married couples, they did not disagree on anything. They were in complete accord. It was obvious what had to be done, they said: two independent states, side by side, separated by the 1967 borders (more or less). There was some wrangling to go through where refugees and Jerusalem were concerned. Other than that: piece of cake.

With those two, Palestinian-Israeli peace seemed ridiculously easy. It was perverse that such peace had not already been achieved.

We are now in Jordan, by the Dead Sea, at another forum arranged by the Davos people. Erekat and Sneh are again among the throng. Erekat is still chief negotiator for the PLO, because there is not much rotation in office in that state-to-be, or would-be state. Sneh is out of government: but still cuts a figure in Israeli politics. He lights up at the sight of Erekat, who is giving a TV interview. He obviously gets a kick out of him.

"When I was governor of the West Bank, I hated his big mouth," he says. "But many things have changed since then." He tells me about the time Tony Blair saw them huddled together in the American Colony Hotel (Jerusalem). "What secrets are you sharing?" said Blair. What the men were doing was sharing pictures of their granddaughters on their cellphones.

Some people don't trust Erekat as far as they could throw him. Other people say that he is as reasonable and trustworthy as anybody in the PLO. Some people may think both: that you can't trust him and that he is the best the PLO has to offer. That is a very, very skeptical group indeed.

He was born in East Jerusalem, 1955. In other words, he was born under Jordanian occupation--which you did not hear much squawking about. The young man went to San Francisco State for his B.A. and his M.A., and then to Bradford University in England for his Ph.D. This degree is in peace studies. He is called "Dr. Erekat," as Sneh is called "Dr. Sneh." And this was the subject of the most charming thing I have ever heard a PLO man say.

During their joint appearance in Davos, Erekat said, "Ephraim is a real doctor. [A specialist in internal medicine.] I am a doctor of blah, blah, blah." And with this he made a gesture that signaled words streaming out of his mouth. Erekat is, indeed, a talker, and a strong-willed, aggressive one.

For many years, he has been not only the PLO's chief negotiator, but its chief spokesman, too. I have likened him to Vladimir Posner, the old Soviet flack. Erekat has a repertoire of American and British idioms. In Jerusalem once, I heard him say, "I'm not bullsh**ting you." He was Yasser Arafat's close aide, and also his interpreter. Moreover, he was the chairman's face to the outside world--"Mr. Outside," I called him. It was a better face than the chairman's, as are most.

That day in Jerusalem, he admonished a group of us pro-Israel types. He said--and I paraphrase--"I represent the peace camp in Palestine. And if you reject me, you will put the radicals in charge. Is that what you want?"

And in Davos, he said some things that almost moved me, I confess. For instance, I asked him, wearily, why he thought peace was within grasp, after so many decades of irreconcilability and violence. In answer, he spoke of a hunger for peace on both sides. And both sides had suffered, he said. Rarely have I heard PLO spokesmen acknowledge Israeli suffering. He also said that, when he goes through Israeli checkpoints, the soldiers recognize him, from television. And they say, "Dr. Erekat, why can't you bring us peace?" Furthermore, Palestinians berate him in public for dealing with the enemy--Israel. And then they scurry up to him and whisper, "Dr. Erekat, can't you bring us peace?"

Here in Jordan, he is in a combative, not to say unpleasant, mood. He is a poor, put-upon fellow, you see. "I am the most disadvantaged negotiator in history, ever since Eve negotiated with Adam." (Again, I paraphrase, but closely.) "I have no army, no navy, no air force, no economy, no anything. My people are fragmented. I have no chance in the United States. I have no voters there. But who said that life was about fairness and justice?"

Erekat is not so disadvantaged, of course: Israel is the most reviled nation on earth, practically a pariah among nations. The U.N. sometimes seems organized to oppose the Israelis and boost the Palestinians. That has to be worth something to this negotiator.

He always stresses democracy, saying that anyone who suggests that Arabs are unsuited to democracy "is a racist." He says that, in the territories, "democracy didn't fail: Hamas failed." It "resorted to bullets and coups d'etat," instead of ballots.

I ask him why an Israeli, seeing what followed Israel's withdrawal from Gaza four years ago, should be eager to withdraw from the West Bank. In other words, will there be a second terror state? Erekat cites Israel's agreements with Egypt and Jordan: They are strong, remaining in place. The problem in Gaza--and the problem in South Lebanon--was that Israel withdrew unilaterally. They "should have talked to me," the Israelis should have. "Their unilateralism did not work. It failed, big-time." It would be nice if the Israelis learned from their mistakes, says Erekat, "but they never admit mistakes."

When people talk so sweepingly about Palestinians--Erekat is not very approving.

In any event, Ephraim Sneh agrees with him entirely, about Gaza and South Lebanon: Israeli "unilateralism" failed bigtime. In the case of Gaza, Israel wound up making a gift to Hamas. Sneh agrees with Erekat about most other things, too. He believes that a settlement is easy--outright easy: because "all the gaps are bridgeable." Even the question of refugees, even the question of Jerusalem.

What is important in dealing with the Palestinians, he says, is to stay away from history, blame, and so on. Play on the level of practicalities: what can be done starting now. "Put all the past aside, and stop what I call the 'comparative victimology'": who did what to whom, when.

Sneh was born in Tel Aviv, four years before the Jewish state (i.e., in 1944). His father, Moshe Sneh, was a leader of Israeli Communism. Ephraim Sneh was a party member until he was 27. After a distinguished--highly distinguished--military career, he joined Labor. Last year, he bolted his longtime party to found his own: Yisrael Hazaka ("Strong Israel").

He calls himself a social democrat, and one who is "on the sane middle ground" when it comes to national security. In fact, he is quite hawkish, about Iran and any other threat to Israel. When I suggest a comparison to Scoop Jackson, he smiles and says, "Americans often say that to me. Is that a compliment? I'm not familiar enough with American politics to know." (I assure him he could do much worse, for comparisons.)

Sneh says that you can trust Erekat, for he is "committed to the idea of peace." But how is he different from Arafat? "Oh, come on," the doctor scoffs. "He is different by ideology and by credibility." He says that you could not make peace with Arafat, because he wanted peace "only according to 100 percent of his demands." The "disappearance" of Arafat, as he puts it, offered a new chance: but the Israelis did not seize it. They missed a "golden opportunity" to strike a deal with the new crew.

Yet Sneh believes that a deal can still be reached. Once that happened, it would take four or five years to implement, he says. The most difficult part would be "the relocation of the settlers"--the uprooted Jews. It could not be done "in a brutal, harsh way," as in Gaza. Sneh allows that hatred now abides in human hearts, both Palestinian and Israeli. "But I believe that peace, cooperation, and prosperity will easily wash it away, clean it out," over time.

And the new prime minister--the new-ld prime minister, Netanyahu? "He is surrounded by hardliners," says Sneh, "which I'm afraid will make it difficult for him to take the right steps." But Netanyahu by himself is "pragmatic enough" to accomplish the necessary.

I can't help asking Sneh about President Bush (43), who is being bashed here, as always: especially by Americans and Europeans. He says, in a broad assessment, "He had the balls to stand up to evil. He was clumsy, and he made mistakes. But he had the balls to stand up to Islamic fascism."

Sneh is an interesting man of the Israeli Left, or semi-Left, seeming fuzzy one minute, and hard as nails the next. He gets your attention. And when he teams up with Erekat, you can almost see a Palestinian-Israeli future: a good one. Yet what from the PLO is to be believed? Another PLO man, Abbas Zaki, their ambassador to Lebanon, goes on television--Arab television--to say that the two-state solution is a mere ruse: just a phase, part of the old PLO incrementalism. In good time, the Jewish state will collapse entirely, and the Palestinians will have it all, rightfully.

The Erekat-Sneh vision could be sheer illusion. Then again, what if it were not?

[name change request]

so do you agree with Sneh? you think that attacking Iraq was Bush having balls to stand up against Islamic fascism?

[HomoSexualPredator]

Do you think the Palestinians will set up casinos when they get the land?

[PETA]

I do. But we've been over this a million times. The support for the war came from a broad coalition of interersts. Different people supported different bases for the war but arrived at the same conclusion - we had cause and we could effect a significant change - risky effort but worth a shot.

Iraq went through hell and GW deserves a lot of blame for failing to lead and simply giving control to those who were fucking it up over there. He did snap out of it and he also got lucky but the state of Iraq today is the most promising Arab state in the world. It could become a model other states wish to emulate. Still fragile but the opportunity for some very good things exists now and never existed under saddam... or previous despots.

Originally Posted by HomoSexualPredator

Do you think the Palestinians will set up casinos when they get the land?

better those than rocket launchers

[name change request]

Originally Posted by St. Stalin the Apathetic

I do.

lol

[DFW303]

Fuck Israel. I've come to the conclusion that Israel wants constant war = defense spending.

[PETA]

I got tinfoil hats for sale over here... cheap.

[DFW303]

Originally Posted by St. Stalin the Apathetic

GW deserves a lot of blame for

George Bush is a funny guy but was a bad president. Of course if you live in Dallas it's conservative talk radio 24/7.

[DFW303]

Originally Posted by HomoSexualPredator

Do you think the Palestinians will set up casinos when they get the land?

They'll just make lots of dough blowing them all away and then set up a W.W.II. holocaust museum.

[Hey Bubu]

Christian,

Do you think that the different tribes will work together in Iraq?

[DFW303]

Originally Posted by Hey Bubu

Christian,

Do you think that the different tribes will work together in Iraq?

The war in Afghanistan and Iraq was basically pay back time for the defense industry after George Bush got elected. What needs to happen is America should stop trying to run the world because they need to justify Future Combat Systems. Conservative talk radio needs to be exposed as a Jonestown cult or Mussolini for dumb white Americans. Rush Limbaugh whho liked popping pills was trying to tell people that the nation was at it's prime when gas was $4.00 a gallon.

[zerojunkie]

Originally Posted by DFW303

The war in Afghanistan and Iraq was basically pay back time for the defense industry after George Bush got elected. What needs to happen is America should stop trying to run the world because they need to justify Future Combat Systems. Conservative talk radio needs to be exposed as a Jonestown cult or Mussolini for dumb white Americans. Rush Limbaugh whho liked popping pills was trying to tell people that the nation was at it's prime when gas was $4.00 a gallon.

Ok, thanks for playing.