Conservatives just don't get it!

[Funkenstein]

LOL @ a wall.

Build it.

Waste the money building up a way to block off one problem and creat a few others along the way (the proposed wall is already under attack from Conservancy groups because of it supposedly needing to run through protected lands already).

Camera posts are what I could cede as worthwhile with even a small garrison for backup if you are dealing with extreme numbers, but a PHYSICAL wall separating North America from the Mexico and her friends in Central America?

LOfuckingL. Let's remove the Statue of Liberty because obviously the engraved statement is outdated.



Reminds me of an episode of Squidbillies where he hires immigrants to build a wall around his property and ends up enclosing himself in without a way out.

[FarangBa]

Originally Posted by J. Fees

ever heard of the great wall of china? take a cue from history.

Umm, what about the Great Wall? What do you mean it didn't work? When? The last dynasty? or Today?

Chángchéng/Wànlǐ Chángchéng (literally "Long wall/The long wall of 10,000 L") First built in the 7th century B.C, rebuilt and maintained between the 6th century BC and the 16th century, the great wall was built to protect the northern borders of the Chinese Empire from Mongolian attacks during the rule of successive dynasties.The most famous is the wall built between 220–200 BC by the first Emperor of China, Qin Shi Huang while little of it remains. Tthe current wall was built during the Ming Dynasty.

If it was useless, why did they keep rebuilding it and rebuilding it? They didn't have: cameras, IR sensors, satellite imagery, ground radar, etc. However, it seems they still found it useful.

Do you just spout the first thing that comes to mind without researching it first? - or - do you find these talking points somewhere?

If so, please post your sources here. I would LOVE to read through them.

[jaesun]

I can agree with a virtual wall instead of a physical one. But I think the main issue isn't a wall but enforcement of federal laws. Why can't a cop in Irving call ICE if they arrest an illegal imigrant? Because some people might protest and call you a racist for enforcing the law of the land?

Thats what angers me.

[J. Fees]

Originally Posted by St. Stalin the Apathetic

Its easier to go through a door than around, over, under or through a wall. Even a conservative can figure that out.

You seem to suggest that if it is not 100% effective it is worthless. Let me suggest that using that logic we should eliminate all criminal laws and punishments... people keep committing crimes so why bother making it harder to get away with it huh?

Oh, ever heard of cameras? We don't need a sentry every 100 yards but a camera, motion sensors etc.



Sure, it didn't always work - just very often. That's why they kept rebuilding it. So, yes, let's do take a lesson from history and note that walls make it harder for a person to get to the other side.

well a small deterrant is not going to stem the massive tide of illegal immigrants. so for the most part, its a waste of money. Its not like the only way illegals come in is by walking in through the deserts of the southwest. Human Trafficking/Smuggling is a huge industry, so if that is what you are trying to stop, a fence is laughable at best.

Its like arresting people for a dime of weed and saying its going to stop the problem of illegal drugs.

[Funkenstein]

Originally Posted by jaesun

I can agree with a virtual wall instead of a physical one. But I think the main issue isn't a wall but enforcement of federal laws. Why can't a cop in Irving call ICE if they arrest an illegal imigrant? Because some people might protest adn call you a rasist for enforcing the law of the land?

Thats what angers me.

Now that, I can understand.

A mothereffer breaks laws or is here without permit, back to the mother/fatherland with you. I'm not going to call that a racist act because it is the law. You come to our land, you have to learn the rules and work WITHIN them.

The wall isn't the real issue of this convo, but the point that I wanted to touch on since it was out there.

AGAIN, like I've screamed for the past 3 years on here, if Dems and Reps would get out of the idea of PARTY loyalty and start considering their loyalty to the AMERICAN PUBLIC, we could actually get crap done.

[PETA]

Originally Posted by Funkenstein

LOL @ a wall.

Build it.

Waste the money building up a way to block off one problem and creat a few others along the way (the proposed wall is already under attack from Conservancy groups because of it supposedly needing to run through protected lands already).

Camera posts are what I could cede as worthwhile with even a small garrison for backup if you are dealing with extreme numbers, but a PHYSICAL wall separating North America from the Mexico and her friends in Central America?

LOfuckingL. Let's remove the Statue of Liberty because obviously the engraved statement is outdated.

Borders exist for a reason Brian. Enforcing them is the duty of the government. Walls make it harder for people to illegally move from one country to another. One could argue there are morfe effective ways to enforce the border either in terms of cost or reducing the flow of illegals but to say the wall won't work doesn't really follow. Do an experiment, take your front door off the hinges. Compare the number of unwanted vistors you get without the door to the number you get with the door.

Originally Posted by Funkenstein

Reminds me of an episode of Squidbillies where he hires immigrants to build a wall around his property and ends up enclosing himself in without a way out.

that's a terrible analogy but forgiveable owing to the richness of the program referred to

Originally Posted by J. Fees

well a small deterrant is not going to stem the massive tide of illegal immigrants.

Small? Do the front door experiment I recommended to Brian and get back to us.

Originally Posted by J. Fees

so for the most part, its a waste of money.

You can argue there may be more cost effective methods to accomplish the same reduction in flow but that's not does not mean the wall won't prevent a lot of illegals from crossing.

Originally Posted by J. Fees

Its not like the only way illegals come in is by walking in through the deserts of the southwest. Human Trafficking/Smuggling is a huge industry, so if that is what you are trying to stop, a fence is laughable at best.

And huge numbers do cross in areas where the wall is and is proposed to be built.

Originally Posted by J. Fees

Its like arresting people for a dime of weed and saying its going to stop the problem of illegal drugs.

you're back to the 100% efficiency problem

why arrest some one of a crime if the law isn't 100% effective - that's a poor argument

[J. Fees]

AGAIN, like I've screamed for the past 3 years on here, if Dems and Reps would get out of the idea of PARTY loyalty and start considering their loyalty to the AMERICAN PUBLIC, we could actually get crap done.

this is what i'm screamin. the parties views are generally shaped by lobbyists and very often have nothing to do with whats best for the public.

[FarangBa]

Originally Posted by jaesun

I can agree with a virtual wall instead of a physical one. But I think the main issue isn't a wall but enforcement of federal laws. Why can't a cop in Irving call ICE if they arrest an illegal imigrant? Because some people might protest adn call you a rasist for enforcing the law of the land?

Thats what angers me.

Fo sho. We need our police to call for ICE enforcement in every county and every city in the Union. I think the "physical" wall is only intended to "canalize" the intruders so that it is easier to catch them.

The problem is that we technically have all the laws we need to seriously "slow" the flow of illegals into our country but there are two problems.

(1) we cannot get any side Democrat or Republican to put the smackdown on the real culprits... The Employers that hire Illegal aliens. If a company was smacked so hard for every offense that it shut them down and out of business, this problem would be solved VERY quickly. AND
(2) we have a bunch of mental people in this country who actually believe that it's "MEAN" to prosecute people who break the law and they fight the enforcement of our laws every single day. (Take the City of Farmers Branch for instance)!

[Funkenstein]

Originally Posted by St. Stalin the Apathetic

Borders exist for a reason Brian. Enforcing them is the duty of the government. Walls make it harder for people to illegally move from one country to another. One could argue there are more effective ways to enforce the border either in terms of cost or reducing the flow of illegals but to say the wall won't work doesn't really follow. Do an experiment, take your front door off the hinges. Compare the number of unwanted vistors you get without the door to the number you get with the door.

Now please note that I never said that walls don't work. I just listed why I think that building a physical wall in the discussed area was silly.

Ask Germany about their old wall. Why do you think they all pole vault, outsprint dogs, and swim so well?

Originally Posted by St. Stalin the Apathetic

that's a terrible analogy but forgiveable owing to the richness of the program referred to

Bwahahahaha.

[J. Fees]

its such a huge problem(illegal immigration), the cost of stopping it would outweigh the benefit.

[PETA]

Originally Posted by Funkenstein

Now please note that I never said that walls don't work. I just listed why I think that building a physical wall in the discussed area was silly.

You said it would be expensive and cause other problems...

so then Brian

1) what would be as effective and cost less?

2) what other problems would be created?

[FarangBa]

Originally Posted by J. Fees

this is what i'm screamin. the parties views are generally shaped by lobbyists and very often have nothing to do with whats best for the public.

That's not what your screamin' Jeez.

Your screamin' out some crazy points on this forum are definitely Left-Wing Propaganda.

I'm curious about your stance on a couple of issues:

1) Do you believe our government brought down the Twin Towers on 9/11?
2) Do you believe George W lied about WMD in order to invade Iraq?
3) Do you even believe the we actually put men on the moon?
4) Do you believe the government is "watching you" right now?

[J. Fees]

1no
2yes
3yes
4no

i would consider what you say crazy right wing propaganda, weird how that works.

i think conservatives have some really good ideas, with strong moral stances. However, i also think that many of these ideas will not and do not work in the real world.

[FarangBa]

Originally Posted by J. Fees

1no
2yes
3yes
4no

Awesome, you score a >>>75<<%.

I take back my original statement in another thread where I stated that the U.S. has the best educational system in the world.

Apparently we don't.

[Funkenstein]

Originally Posted by St. Stalin the Apathetic

You said it would be expensive and cause other problems...

so then Brian

1) what would be as effective and cost less?

2) what other problems would be created?

The stuff that I posted up earlier (sorry for a quick answer, running for the door atm).

Cameras and small garrisons (border patrol/responders) to stem the flow and you give people jobs that are willing to move to rural areas.

Problems ALREADY being looked at (I'll find the link when I return) is that proposed strips of the physical wall would go through federally protected lands and disrupt the conservancy projects in place already).