I have a new favorite liberal program

[Deff Gordon]

Originally Posted by jaesun

And thats different from any other day becaaauuse........???

oh i totally think he's a dipshit. even his movie religulous was a fucking joke. the argument that a lot have (on his side/beliefs) was ignored for the zany "let's make believers look stoooopid" route.

seriously a total dumbfuck that panders to the LCD.

[molecule]

too bad its not a socialist revolution. the american youth would be all bout it bout it wearing the leaders of the revolution on t-shirts.


i'm on the fence on this one. while its a complex situation, in the simplest terms if your not part of the solution, your part of the problem. Obama is riding the fence of being part of the problem with the legitimacy he gives Ahmadinejad.

so much for liberals having the guts to stand up for the oppressed of the world though.

[Deff Gordon]

Originally Posted by molecule

too bad its not a socialist revolution. the american youth would be all bout bout it wearing the leaders of the revolution on t-shirts.


i'm on the fence on this one. while its a complex situation, in the simplest terms if your not part of the solution, your part of the problem. Obama is riding the fence of being part of the problem with the legitimacy he gives Ahmadinejad.

so much for liberals having the guts to stand up for the oppressed of the world though.

i haven't seen him give any more legitimacy than anyone else has. Ahmadinejad is legitimately the President of Iran... whom we don't communicate with.

but like i've said before... speaking out against whatever would be a dumbfuck move and would give the Radicals fuel for their fire. and that's a fact.

[molecule]

Originally Posted by Deff Gordon

i haven't seen him give any more legitimacy than anyone else has. Ahmadinejad is legitimately the President of Iran... whom we don't communicate with.

but like i've said before... speaking out against whatever would be a dumbfuck move and would give the Radicals fuel for their fire. and that's a fact.

it may raise their voices but that may be a good thing. it would build solidarity between the US and the moderate future of Iran. Average folk on the street of Iran do not hate the US.

Obama had expressed that he wants negotiations with Ahmadinejad. That's communication. I'm not throwing Obama under the bus here. It's complex. I'm pointing out that Obama is purposefully trying to ride the fence.

[name change request]

well if Merritt says so then it must be true

[Deff Gordon]

Originally Posted by molecule

It's complex. I'm pointing out that Obama is purposefully trying to ride the fence.

which is the right thing to do. as for Obama reaching out to President membersonlyjacket... he hasn't at all. in his speech in Cairo he basically said (before their election) that if you give us somebody to talk to, we'll talk.

Originally Posted by joel

well if Merritt says so then it must be true

i'm still waiting for somebody to show me where i'm wrong. obama's doing the right thing here...

what have i said that's false?

as for Iran.. I'm not on the fence on any of this. ahmadinajhad is part of a fanatical group that believe the 12th Imam will be coming soon and he believes it's his duty to help usher in the Apocalypse.

Islam and Christianity both have very well defined scripture and outlines of the end of days and they both can't be right. I'm not even talking about whether you believe in it all or not... the bottom line is that ahmadinajhad does and he believes it is his duty to make it happen for all of Islam.

it's a very delicate situation going on over there and i suggest you really read up on what's really going on. Obama is doing the right thing by not speaking out for/against anybody because those fuels don't need to be lit. a vote for the other guy isn't a vote for loving America btw.

[name change request]

Originally Posted by Deff Gordon

what have i said that's false?

that's the problem... you stated your opinions which are neither true nor false but the way you wrote them three or four times you are treating them as though they are the gospel.

[Deff Gordon]

Originally Posted by joel

that's the problem... you stated your opinions which are neither true nor false but the way you wrote them three or four times you are treating them as though they are the gospel.

then tell me why he should be up there on a soap box proclaiming his/our support for Rezai?

I've stated all facts that back up the opinion on why he's doing the right thing (to your none)

here's a truth:
Bush spoke up during their last election thus, pushing a relative unknown (Ahmadinajhad) into the presidency with the fires that were lit and making it seem like there was a US supported candidacy.

we don't need to go that route again... the gospel and the truth!

-prove me wrong.

[PETA]

Originally Posted by Deff Gordon

which is the right thing to do. as for Obama reaching out to President membersonlyjacket... he hasn't at all. in his speech in Cairo he basically said (before their election) that if you give us somebody to talk to, we'll talk.

i'm still waiting for somebody to show me where i'm wrong. obama's doing the right thing here...

what have i said that's false?

as for Iran.. I'm not on the fence on any of this. ahmadinajhad is part of a fanatical group that believe the 12th Imam will be coming soon and he believes it's his duty to help usher in the Apocalypse.

Islam and Christianity both have very well defined scripture and outlines of the end of days and they both can't be right. I'm not even talking about whether you believe in it all or not... the bottom line is that ahmadinajhad does and he believes it is his duty to make it happen for all of Islam.

it's a very delicate situation going on over there and i suggest you really read up on what's really going on. Obama is doing the right thing by not speaking out for/against anybody because those fuels don't need to be lit. a vote for the other guy isn't a vote for loving America btw.

Ahmadenijad is certainly a true believer waiting for the hidden imam's return and was "elected" previously. Whether this current election is legit or not who can know. Whether Obama's doing the right thing is difficult to say. He could be missing out on a golden opportunity to lend his voice, legitimacy and support to a group that may represent a much better future for Iran and the region.

[Deff Gordon]

Originally Posted by St. Stalin the Apathetic

He could be missing out on a golden opportunity to lend his voice, legitimacy and support to a group that may represent a much better future for Iran and the region.

Mousavi's supporters aren't necessarily pro-US by any means. that's why it's a delicate situation. walking a tightrope. sucks.. but the past has shown that when we do speak up... it fucks things up over there. it needs to take it's own natural course, which *seems* to be that the majority actually want Ahmandinajhad out.

[PETA]

Originally Posted by Deff Gordon

here's a truth:
Bush spoke up during their last election thus, pushing a relative unknown (Ahmadinajhad) into the presidency with the fires that were lit and making it seem like there was a US supported candidacy.

we don't need to go that route again... the gospel and the truth!

-prove me wrong.

1) I think you might overstate the importance GW had on an Iranian election
2) its hard to prove why something didn't happen I wasn't eaten by tigers today because GW is so awesome.... prove me wrong.

[Deff Gordon]

Originally Posted by St. Stalin the Apathetic

1) I think you might overstate the importance GW had on an Iranian election
2) its hard to prove why something didn't happen I wasn't eaten by tigers today because GW is so awesome.... prove me wrong.

hahaha

well.. his support back then has been argued and brought up quite a lot. he publicly backed a candidate. that created a shit storm with the politics over there (notably the opposition campaigning that they weren't the pawns of the Great Satan).

[molecule]

Obama was elected largely on his likability around the world. If this is true and he has the pull that Bush did not, it is way different than when Bush spoke up. The comparison is not a good one.

[PETA]

Originally Posted by Deff Gordon

Mousavi's supporters aren't necessarily pro-US by any means. that's why it's a delicate situation. walking a tightrope. sucks.. but the past has shown that when we do speak up... it fucks things up over there. it needs to take it's own natural course, which *seems* to be that the majority actually want Ahmandinajhad out.

Sure, they could be ravenous anti-Americans but given Ahmadenijhad's views on America it would be no stretch to argue the camps split on this issue and are warmer to the US than Ahmadenijhad's supporters are.

There's no doubt that this is a tightrope and doing nothing may be the right thing to do... then again maybe not.

I don't disagree with a wait and see approach but I think we should be quick to lend support if it looks like they can topple the mullahs and create a gov't that actually represents the people.... whether they're eager to be our buddies or not. There are no democracies on the planet advocating the destruction of Israel etc etc

Originally Posted by molecule

Obama was elected largely on his likability around the world. If this is true and he has the pull that Bush did not, it is way different than when Bush spoke up. The comparison is not a good one.

I'll find an article.. comments from a leftie Israeli on Bush... (he's a negotiator w/the Palestinians - forget the name.. Sneh or somethng like that)

the gist..... Bush had the balls to call jihadist islamic terrorists out by name. he may have pursued as clumbsy error prone policy but at least he had the stones to say and do something about an intolerable situation

[Deff Gordon]

Originally Posted by molecule

Obama was elected largely on his likability around the world. If this is true and he has the pull that Bush did not, it is way different than when Bush spoke up. The comparison is not a good one.

again, there is a fine line.

i'm going on the stance that the speech in cairo was enough and that he shouldn't be saying anything right now. now is not the time.

what's he supposed to say? can anyone tell me that?