And the dominoes begin to fall...

[vinnie97]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/politico/200...1dJnOPskV0fNdF

Angered by White House decisions on everything from greenhouse gases to car dealerships, congressional Democrats from rural districts are threatening to revolt against parts of President Barack Obama’s ambitious first-year agenda.

“They don’t get rural America,” said Rep. Dennis Cardoza, a Democrat who represents California’s agriculture-rich Central Valley. “They form their views of the world in large cities.”

Cardoza’s critique was aimed at Obama’s Environmental Protection Agency, but it echoes complaints rural-district Democrats have about a number of Obama administration decisions.

“I wouldn’t say it’s a complete strikeout, but they’ve just got a few more bases to it when it comes to the rural community,” said Louisiana Democratic Sen. Mary Landrieu.

A rural revolt could hamper the administration’s ability to pass climate change and health care legislation before the August recess.

Democrats from farm states are some of the same moderate members Obama must win to get almost any piece of his agenda through the Senate: Landrieu and Sens. Max Baucus of Montana, Ben Nelson of Nebraska, and Blanche Lincoln and Mark Pryor of Arkansas. Without their votes, Democrats can’t move legislation over Republican filibusters — such as the one sure to come if the health care plan that moves through the Senate includes a public option supported by the administration.



// In the House, rural Democrats threaten to marshal nearly 50 votes against the climate and energy bill backed by the administration.

“For Obama, it’s a very tough high-wire act,” said Frank O’Donnell, executive director of the environmental group Clean Air Watch. “The farm states are among those that the Democrats desperately want to keep in the fold at the same time the farm states historically aren’t very good on environmental issues.”

Obama made inroads to rural areas during his presidential campaign, a result of pouring significant resources into rural counties in key battleground states. According to exit polls, Obama won 43 percent of the rural vote — a 4 percent increase from Democrat John Kerry in 2004.

But some Democrats complain that Obama hasn’t paid much attention to the rural states since he’s been in office.

“We’d love to see him out in rural America more,” Lincoln said.

The conflict with rural Democrats burst into the open at the Capitol last week, when rural and moderate Democrats revolted against the decision to close roughly 3,400 General Motors and Chrysler car dealerships. The White House Auto Task Force endorsed some of the cuts in its plans to revamp the companies.

In rural America, especially, the looming closures pose a dire threat. Car dealers are not only an economic linchpin of many county-seat towns but also offer support for institutions and a way of life that can’t be easily replaced.

“In rural jurisdictions, your dealerships are pretty big employers. If you knock out four dealerships, the ripple effects of that are substantial,” said Rep. Frank Kratovil (D-Md.), who represents a largely rural Eastern Shore district and is co-sponsoring a bill that could force the auto companies to honor their contracts with the rejected dealerships.

With GM and Chrysler forcing hundreds of local dealerships to close up shop, members of Congress are scrambling to save thousands of jobs and warning of severe political consequences that could come from shuttering what are often community pillars.

Sen. Kay Hagan (D-N.C.) questioned how independent owned and operated businesses have any financial impact on automakers.

“None of us can quite understand why they consider dealerships a drag when they are the ones that buy the cars, that take the financial risks. Many of the dealerships that are being closed are profitable.”



Obama spokeswoman Jen Psaki said that “all decisions about specific dealerships are made solely by the car companies on the basis of what they believe is in the interests of the long-term health and survival of their business.”

But lawmakers say the car dealership closings are just the latest blow to rural areas since Obama took office. The first sign of a disconnect between the White House and rural voters came in the administration’s budget, which included a plan to slash direct payments to farms with annual gross receipts of more than $500,000. After an outcry from farm-state lawmakers, Congress dropped the cuts from the budget.

Since then, much of rural Democrats’ unhappiness with the new administration has focused on the EPA. While Bush administration political appointees in the agency were skeptical of stricter environmental laws, Obama’s EPA has moved forward quickly on a host of new regulations, including limits on greenhouse gas emissions that farm lobbyists say will raise costs on farmers.

“There is a different focus [at EPA] than under the Bush years,” said Rick Krause, senior director of congressional relations for the American Farm Bureau. “And there very well could be some political risk involved.”

Rep. Collin Peterson, the chairman of the House Agriculture Committee, says the urban-rural disconnect under Obama is no worse than it was under his predecessors.

“We’re an urban country, and the White House reflects the majority of the constituency of the country,” he said. “This is the problem we have with everything. Folks don’t understand what we do.”

Still, Peterson wants the Department of Agriculture — rather than the EPA — to oversee what kinds of agricultural activities will qualify as “offsets” that benefit the climate under the climate change bill. The bill allows businesses to meet their emissions caps by paying farmers to cut emissions, a process that could result in big agricultural profits.

“A lot of us on the committee don’t want the EPA anywhere near our farmers,” Peterson said last week during a committee hearing.

A draft decision by the agency ruling that “indirect land use” issues must be considered when calculating the carbon footprint of corn-based ethanol also angered many in the farming and renewable fuels community.

While these issues play out most dramatically in farm states, they could have an impact that spreads much further. Forcing rural Democrats to vote for climate change legislation could create problems for the Democrats nationally in 2010 and 2012.

“If Collin Peterson and these rural and conservative Democrats in the House are unable to work out some arrangement with [Henry] Waxman and [Ed] Markey, it could resonate beyond the Beltway,” said Al Cross, director of the Institute for Rural Journalism and Community Issues and a veteran Kentucky political reporter.

Cross noted that 80 percent of the electricity that rural cooperatives generate comes from coal-fired power plants — the same ones that would take a hit under the current legislation.

And many of these regions that run on coal also happen to be electoral swing states, leaving Republicans licking their chops.

“It will cost every North Carolinian somewhere in the neighborhood of $2,400 to $3,000 a year in just the electrical surcharge,” said Sen. Richard Burr, a Republican who hails from a state Obama carried last year and would like to win again. “That’s a surcharge larger than their annual electric bill.”

A White House official said the administration is committed to alleviating any disproportionate burden on rural states. “The president has been clear that if there is a disparate impact on certain regions during the transition period, families and businesses should be compensated — the Waxman-Markey legislation includes provisions that do just that,” the official said.

Damn country bumpkins, what do they know?!

[tricky]

This is not a "rural" country anymore. What do you know?

Population living in Urban Areas 225,956,060 79.219%
Population living in Rural Areas 59,274,456 20.781%

Don't be afraid of statistics.

http://www.fhwa.dot.gov/planning/census/cps2k.htm

[vinnie97]

I know, I know, just an expendable minority, right?

[PETA]

Originally Posted by tricky

This is not a "rural" country anymore. What do you know?

Population living in Urban Areas 225,956,060 79.219%
Population living in Rural Areas 59,274,456 20.781%

Don't be afraid of statistics.

http://www.fhwa.dot.gov/planning/census/cps2k.htm

Interestingly enough... those urban areas all depend on those rural areas for something close to 100% of their food, natural gas, coal etc etc etc requirements.

How long would it take 17,000,000 New Yorkers to starve if, say, 10,000 Iowan farmers stopped growing corn? How quickly would Chicagoans freeze if we stopped shipping them natural gas? How quickly would our manugfacturing sector (the world's largest manufacturing base... by far) continue to function if ND, WV and other coal producing states stopped shipping it to the enegry plants they depend on?

The population center of gravity is urban (sub-urban?) but the raw materials our nation depends on are not found in San Francisco... they're found in our rural areas. We're urban because we can afford to be. We need fewer and fewer people to actually produce those resources our urban centers depend on... don't be so blind as to fail to recognize that fact.

Don't be so impressed by statistics that you fail to understand what they're telling you.

[name change request]

Originally Posted by St. Stalin the Apathetic

How long would it take 17,000,000 New Yorkers to starve if, say, 10,000 Iowan farmers stopped growing corn?

a really really long time because they could just go eat at mcdonalds and mcdonalds don't use no corn for their food... it's grown in petri dishes

[PETA]

Originally Posted by joel

... it's grown in petri dishes

so's the change they give you

[tricky]

Originally Posted by St. Stalin the Apathetic

Interestingly enough... those urban areas all depend on those rural areas for something close to 100% of their food, natural gas, coal etc etc etc requirements.

How long would it take 17,000,000 New Yorkers to starve if, say, 10,000 Iowan farmers stopped growing corn? How quickly would Chicagoans freeze if we stopped shipping them natural gas? How quickly would our manugfacturing sector (the world's largest manufacturing base... by far) continue to function if ND, WV and other coal producing states stopped shipping it to the enegry plants they depend on?

The population center of gravity is urban (sub-urban?) but the raw materials our nation depends on are not found in San Francisco... they're found in our rural areas. We're urban because we can afford to be. We need fewer and fewer people to actually produce those resources our urban centers depend on... don't be so blind as to fail to recognize that fact.

Don't be so impressed by statistics that you fail to understand what they're telling you.

We're urban because we're a services-centered economy and it's not 1830 anymore. Try running Wall Street from 1500000 homes scattered across Montana. Urban areas drive our economic growth.

That still doesn't change the fact that this is not a rural country. Yes, they're important to getting food in my belly. However, if you are to suggest that we prop up car dealerships in rural counties since those communities provide food...feel free to expand upon that. And I really feel sorry for their farm subsides too. Aren't you a conservative? Or are you just arguing to argue?

Any increased costs will be passed on to consumers of products produced. Are Iowa farmers going to stop growing corn overnight? Is Obama creating an American food crisis?

[PETA]

Originally Posted by tricky

We're urban because we're a services-centered economy and it's not 1830 anymore. Try running Wall Street from 1500000 homes scattered across Montana. Urban areas drive our economic growth.

I doubt there are 1.5M Montanans say nothing of 1.5 million homes. Still, ever heard of electronic trading?

Urban areas are concentrated economic engines - absolutely zero doubt about it. That's not at issue.

Originally Posted by tricky

That still doesn't change the fact that this is not a rural country. Yes, they're important to getting food in my belly. However, if you are to suggest that we prop up car dealerships in rural counties since those communities provide food...feel free to expand upon that. And I really feel sorry for their farm subsides too. Aren't you a conservative? Or are you just arguing to argue?

I was simply pointing out the value of our rural areas which you seemed to discount to the point of worthlessness. Without them the urban centers collapse.

[HomoSexualPredator]

Originally Posted by St. Stalin the Apathetic

The population center of gravity is urban (sub-urban?) but the raw blah blah blah our nation depends on are not found in San Francisco...

Speak for yourself.

[HomoSexualPredator]

Originally Posted by St. Stalin the Apathetic

I was simply pointing out the value of our rural areas which you seemed to discount to the point of worthlessness. Without them the urban centers collapse.

A bit of a tangent: how many other nations depend on US for food? Just those on assistance? Do other "modernized" countries depend on our food production?

[BradH]

Without urban areas rural areas collapse!

Originally Posted by HomoSexualPredator

A bit of a tangent: how many other nations depend on US for food? Just those on assistance? Do other "modernized" countries depend on our food production?

The bulk of our food exports go to countries with no area to farm in a capacity for their population. Like Japan buys a lot of beef and shit (at least when our moo-cows are healthy.) You could probably find those figures somewhere....

[BradH]

http://www.ers.usda.gov/Data/FATUS/

[PETA]

Originally Posted by HomoSexualPredator

A bit of a tangent: how many other nations depend on US for food? Just those on assistance? Do other "modernized" countries depend on our food production?

Not sure but of the world's food exports the US accounts for 70%

Originally Posted by HomoSexualPredator

Speak for yourself.

lol

Originally Posted by BradH

Without urban areas rural areas collapse!

lol - no they wouldn't. They'd just be poor.. but the urban areas would freeze and starve.... ornery fucking anteater

[Dionysos]

Originally Posted by vinnie97

I know, I know, just an expendable minority, right?

You conservatives are always railing on about minorities being expendable.

[vinnie97]

And yet the flipside of that irony is the libs give the impression they stand behind minorities. In fact, liberals have shown far more interest in pandering to the victim mindset of minorities than actually empowering them.