Troops leaving Iraq.

[Damnsammit]

Originally Posted by PETA

Nope. But I do think it wise to maintain a presence in those where they're wrapping up a war and trying to prevent it from breaking out again.

And how long do you want them there?

Originally Posted by PETA

They probably are which is a pretty damn good reason to have them there don't you think?

Whether they are a deterrent or not is really not the main issue. We could establish a military base in every corner of every country and it would deter crime, but I don't think it's necessary to do so. I don't like the U.S. being the super global mega police, although I do see how it is needed in some areas.

Iraq right now is one of them, but I don't think staying there for 50+ years is called for. I'd rather continue to train the Iraqis to fight their own battles and get our troops back to the States.

Originally Posted by PETA

Then you are a dumbass Sam. There isn't a rational reason to regard the north with an opinion that doesn't include words like scorn, contempt and all kinda other nasty descriptive words. KJI is amongst the world's most brutal despots and he traffics in weaponry to the most unsavory regimes on the planet. The south sells cars and electronics to the developed world. Sound like a close call to you?

You really think that if the US military wasn't present in S. Korea we wouldn't have the capability of obliterating the North just as easily? I can see how having a large military base in the South makes it easier, but that doesn't mean it is necessary.

I agree that KJI is one of the biggest threats to the world, but aren't our multiple military bases in Japan good enough? Why do we need to be knocking at their door pissing them off all the time?

[PETA]

Originally Posted by Damnsammit

And how long do you want them there?

lol - you cannot put a date on that. As long as their presence is desired by the Iraqi people.

Originally Posted by Damnsammit

Whether they are a deterrent or not is really not the main issue. We could establish a military base in every corner of every country and it would deter crime, but I don't think it's necessary to do so.

Then we agree. It isn't necessary to station our troops in every country. The trick is knowing which places, when, how much etc. And that issue is not going to be black and white.

Originally Posted by Damnsammit

I don't like the U.S. being the super global mega police, although I do see how it is needed in some areas.

Again, yes, agreed.

Originally Posted by Damnsammit

Iraq right now is one of them, but I don't think staying there for 50+ years is called for. I'd rather continue to train the Iraqis to fight their own battles and get our troops back to the States.

Hard to say. We have no crystal ball. You present an optimal outcome. The world rarely woks out that way though.

Originally Posted by Damnsammit

You really think that if the US military wasn't present in S. Korea we wouldn't have the capability of obliterating the North just as easily?

The North has 1,000,000 men on the edge of the DMZ. They could overrun the south in a heart beat. It is easier to deter the North from invading than it is to push them back out.

Originally Posted by Damnsammit

I can see how having a large military base in the South makes it easier, but that doesn't mean it is necessary.

I agree that KJI is one of the biggest threats to the world, but aren't our multiple military bases in Japan good enough?

Again, we have no crystal ball. However, how hard is this to accept...

1) The North is a militaristic and aggressive dictatorship still technically at war with the South

2) Absent detterent the odds of invasion increase substantially

3) W/deterrent the odds shrink to a number approaching zero

4) it is easier and cheaper in terms of blood and treasure to deter than to fight and push the North back out

therefore it is wiser to have troops there than to not have troops there.

Originally Posted by Damnsammit

Why do we need to be knocking at their door pissing them off all the time?

fuck KJI - who cars if we piss him off. He should be concerned about pissing us off.

[Damnsammit]

Originally Posted by PETA

1) The North is a militaristic and aggressive dictatorship still technically at war with the South

Agreed.

Originally Posted by PETA

2) Absent detterent the odds of invasion increase substantially

While they will increase, I doubt it would be substantial because I think that he would know immediately that he stands a 0% chance of success in defeating the South while they have the US backing.

Our military power in itself should be all the deterrent he needs. Japan is a stones throw away and any stupid mistake he made in trying to start another war would be met with extreme opposition and their puny forces would be crushed.

Right now they are just building up and eventually (if they haven't already) they are going to have nuclear weapons. I would rather have them start a war right now and let their be bloodshed than later when they are nuclear ready. But I don't see it happening. If there is a chance to solve it diplomatically, I don't think it will be obtained by a troop buildup at the DMZ.

Originally Posted by PETA

4) it is easier and cheaper in terms of blood and treasure to deter than to fight and push the North back out

But is it really? War breaks out now then we go in and destroy them with our military, but if it prolongs and we let them develop more powerful weapons then I think the amount of lives lost will be much great.

Originally Posted by PETA

fuck KJI - who cars if we piss him off. He should be concerned about pissing us off.

Why? He has been pissing us off for a long time now and we haven't done anything except cry to the UN, who in turn haven't really done anything.

[PETA]

Originally Posted by Damnsammit

While they will increase, I doubt it would be substantial because I think that he would know immediately that he stands a 0% chance of success in defeating the South while they have the US backing.

I'd assert quite the opposite. If we withdrew all our troops I think KJI would see that as a sign of weakness. He would know he could overrun the south quickly. That would then put POTUS on the horns of a dilema... come to the South's aid or not. Does the will exist to spend the gold and spill more of our soldiers' blood? I don't see Obama having the same steeley resolve that a more hawkish president would have. Imo, if we pulled out it would be a matter of when not if. KJI would then sue for peace and Obama would grant it. Think of it as a smash and grab on a state level. He'd leave with tons of goodies (trucks, cars, electronics, whiskey, medicine etc etc etc).

Originally Posted by Damnsammit

Our military power in itself should be all the deterrent he needs. Japan is a stones throw away and any stupid mistake he made in trying to start another war would be met with extreme opposition and their puny forces would be crushed.

Yeah, you're not hearing me. It would take him a matter of hours to secure Seoul. Japan has a decent defense force but part of the surrender agreement (WWII) and part of their constitution prohibits them from having a military capable of mounting any kind of invasion.

Originally Posted by Damnsammit

Right now they are just building up and eventually (if they haven't already) they are going to have nuclear weapons.

Done deal. They have nukes. Terrible delivery system and poor yield but they have them.

Originally Posted by Damnsammit

I would rather have them start a war right now and let their be bloodshed than later when they are nuclear ready. But I don't see it happening. If there is a chance to solve it diplomatically, I don't think it will be obtained by a troop buildup at the DMZ.

They've had troops there since the cease fire afaik.. no need for a build up. They are there now.

Originally Posted by Damnsammit

But is it really?

Yes. It is easier to not fight a war that it is to fight a war.

Originally Posted by Damnsammit

War breaks out now then we go in and destroy them with our military, but if it prolongs and we let them develop more powerful weapons then I think the amount of lives lost will be much great.

Yeah... same response. 1 million soldiers is a lot of people to kill and KJI will have little regard for putting them in harms way. Do we have the resolve to slaughter say > 250,000 men?

Originally Posted by Damnsammit

Why? He has been pissing us off for a long time now and we haven't done anything except cry to the UN, who in turn haven't really done anything.

True. I said he should be. He isn't because our policy towards him has been horse shit for at least the last two Presidents.

[Damnsammit]

Fine. I will give you S. Korea, but I still don't like it.

Whatever happened to good ol' espionage and assassinations?

[PETA]

Originally Posted by Damnsammit

Fine. I will give you S. Korea, but I still don't like it.

Whatever happened to good ol' espionage and assassinations?

We passed a law decades ago making it illegal to order one or to carry-out an execution.

[FarangBa]

Originally Posted by Nyteshade

It's nowhere near the public presence that everyone is familiar with though. Our troops will be limited to the bases outside of the cities and the countryside. No more of us patrolling the streets.




In my experience, if it doesn't involve a body count, military stuff doesn't make the news. All the good things I saw happen when I was there never got covered by anybody other than the Marine Corps Times. Why do you think you didn't hear much about Afghanistan for about 2-3 years?

Meh,
Doesn't really mean that much.. I've seen just as much outside of Baghdad as inside. The effect that I think it will have is (IF) we were to send troops inside the city to "assist" the IA or IP we will lose a WHOLE lot more men then we do now.

Let's hope not.

And, absolutely true about not hearing a single piece of good news here in the states. Apparently good news doesn't fit into the agenda of most media outlets.

[FarangBa]

Originally Posted by Deff Gordon

the fresh German beer is killing our soldiers. it's a silent killer. that along with scat films and techno. i fear for their lives.

Haha

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