Town Hall Meetings

[Ash]

I blame Rush Limbaugh, the belligerant drug addict spokesperson for the mentally ill right.

[Deff Gordon]

i would want the people making life or death decisions to have their personal compensation to be taken out of the equation of said decisions.

nothing can be worse than the system that is allowed today.

[jaesun]

Originally Posted by Deff Gordon

nothing can be worse than the system that is allowed today.

Really? Wow. Nothing is worse than our current system? Then why are Canadians and people from all around the world coming here for healthcare if they don't feel their system back home isn't working for them?

I agree we need to change up the way things are done but I'm not on board with governemtn getting this involved.

Originally Posted by jaesun

I say set up a system where the gov can step in and fill the gaping holes of the insurance companies. Cancer, etc. but leave the simple everyday shit to the insurance companies. And create legislation to deter fraudulent lawsuits that drive up the costs for all of us. Thats just the start of what I'd like to see happen, but totally turning the healthcare system on its head isn't going to help, IMO.

I have a ton of other ideas where the government can get involved to make things better but I don't want them running the whole thing.

[molecule]

Originally Posted by matt

Killing baby boomers and females?

Agree to disagree.

I do not trust insurance companies like yourself.

no, but you trust politicians.

who said i trust them? maybe just slightly more than politicians.

i've had my own personal run-ins with health insurance companies. fought long and hard to get them to come through on their end and pay up. they paid over 100K in bills, I paid about 5K.

the other day i went in for a procedure and the lady said, that will be $1000. I said, um, I don't have health insurance, wink wink and she said, that will be $150.

[molecule]

Originally Posted by Deff Gordon

i would want the people making life or death decisions to have their personal compensation to be taken out of the equation of said decisions.

nothing can be worse than the system that is allowed today.

giving that decision to the government does not change that. it only adds more to the equation that should not be entered.

[Deff Gordon]

Originally Posted by molecule

giving that decision to the government does not change that. it only adds more to the equation that should not be entered.

if it's given to the government, the part of 'financial compensation for saving money' is removed. no more bonus structure.

anyway you look at it, there will ALWAYS be a board of people making decisions. when something like corruption is allowed in the form of a bonus structure, there are plenty of clear losers. there's a million horror stories out there right now. fuck.. they make blockbuster movies on this shit and give them oscars too! corruption is the distortion of a free market society that causes it to have problems. it's a proven distortion in our free market system that needs to be removed. plain and simple. best solution ever to fix the problem... if over time, the free market proves itself to handle it, then so be it. but right now... no fucking way man. it's gotta change. period. removing this major distortion is 100% the answer for right now.

[matt]

How does it add more? The govt worker is incentivized for non coverage? That part of the plan that we didnt see?

There are no dividends to shareholders for not covering people.

Again, agree to disagree.

Insurance companies are the scum of the earth

[tricky]

Originally Posted by Deff Gordon

if it's given to the government, the part of 'financial compensation for saving money' is removed. no more bonus structure.

anyway you look at it, there will ALWAYS be a board of people making decisions. when something like corruption is allowed in the form of a bonus structure, there are plenty of clear losers. there's a million horror stories out there right now. fuck.. they make blockbuster movies on this shit and give them oscars too! corruption is the distortion of a free market society that causes it to have problems. it's a proven distortion in our free market system that needs to be removed. plain and simple. best solution ever to fix the problem... if over time, the free market proves itself to handle it, then so be it. but right now... no fucking way man. it's gotta change. period. removing this major distortion is 100% the answer for right now.

........

[molecule]

Originally Posted by Deff Gordon

if it's given to the government, the part of 'financial compensation for saving money' is removed. no more bonus structure.

how do you figure? they could be pressured more so.

Originally Posted by Deff Gordon

anyway you look at it, there will ALWAYS be a board of people making decisions. when something like corruption is allowed in the form of a bonus structure, there are plenty of clear losers. there's a million horror stories out there right now. fuck.. they make blockbuster movies on this shit and give them oscars too! corruption is the distortion of a free market society that causes it to have problems. it's a proven distortion in our free market system that needs to be removed. plain and simple. best solution ever to fix the problem... if over time, the free market proves itself to handle it, then so be it. but right now... no fucking way man. it's gotta change. period. removing this major distortion is 100% the answer for right now.

the government should fight the corruption, not take it over to be just as corrupt. You seem to believe that corruption only lives in the private sector. once you hand over the health of the people to the government your more fucked than ever. no way man

[david austin]

Originally Posted by johnny861

What I find amsuing are the PR/ marketing companies that are backing these "angry protestors" and some of the backgrounds of a few of these "angry protestors", one lady was found to be a regional chair for the RNC, another guy was an insurance lobbyist, even had the audacity to show up wearing a Blue Cross Blue Shield polo shirt.

And that is different than Obamas crew screening any dissent during his 'townhall' meeting? That dog and pony show yesterday might as well have been a campaign stump.

The point made that the general public doesnt know is spot on.

The dems are grasping at straws by belittling a public that is looking for guidance, clarity, and a little more backbone from the poeple THEY voted in. This healthcare bill will change America for decades. People are worried. People are scared. People just want to make sure that all the bases are covered and everything (within reason) is well thought out.

The fact that even the some of the Dems have/are admitting to not reading the bill and not understanding parts of it speak volumes... even to the point where dem supporters are throwing up a flag of caution.

Forcing the issue is just starting piss everyone off.

[matt]

When did i say i trust politicians? Lol, no way. John cornyn aint making healthcare decisions at a granular level tho.

Hell, I dont even trust my own physicians haha.

Agree to disagree.

[jaesun]

Originally Posted by david austin

And that is different than Obamas crew screening any dissent during his 'townhall' meeting? That dog and pony show yesterday might as well have been a campaign stump.

The point made that the general public doesnt know is spot on.

The dems are grasping at straws by belittling a public that is looking for guidance, clarity, and a little more backbone from the poeple THEY voted in. This healthcare bill will change America for decades. People are worried. People are scared. People just want to make sure that all the bases are covered and everything (within reason) is well thought out.

The fact that even the some of the Dems have/are admitting to not reading the bill and not understanding parts of it speak volumes... even to the point where dem supporters are throwing up a flag of caution.

Forcing the issue is just starting piss everyone off.

^^ What he said.

[Deff Gordon]

Originally Posted by molecule

how do you figure? they could be pressure more so.



the government should fight the corruption, not take it over to be just as corrupt. You seem to believe that corruption only lives in the private sector. once you hand over the health of the people to the government your more fucked than ever. no way man

well.. you are making presumptions and trying to predict the future. i have shown that it doesn't work at all right now. the system in place right now is the major flaw. and it must be stopped... before it kills more people.

/i love that tag line. lol




also... as for forcing the issue. Obama has stated early on when they were starting the process... he knew it was going to be a long time. he just wants this to be on the forefront and wants them to get off their asses and start the process and debate. so... kudos for really opening the discussion and not shoveling it out with the leaves. i remember some interview from months ago on all of that.

[PETA]

Originally Posted by matt

So brad, you would rather a for profit organization just keep making the life or death decision for the patient?

For my part... yes. See above; you can sue Blue Cross Blue Shield.. you have no recourse against the Gov't.

Originally Posted by matt

t some point the decision needs to be made. When you are talking about getting an extra month of "life" for 250-500K there are a lot of factors. Someone is going to have to make a decision to move fwd and someone is going to have to pay for it in the end.

Well, quite specifically yes. That's one of the the really sticky wicklets. You know that end of life care is, in many cases, absurdly expensive and buys very little additional time. That being the case the question of who gets to be the decision maker is of central importance. I do NOT want it to be a bureaucrat. Others are more trusting that the good intnetions of the government will be reflected in policy... still others think it won't and don't care. But, I do think the point you raise addresses a very central concern of many people.

Originally Posted by matt

I do not trust insurance companies like yourself.

I don't trust them any further than I can throw them.... but I can sue them.

I trust the gov't bureaucrats even less and cannot sue them.

Given the choice of whom to be fucked by I'll take private business.

[matt]

No wonder premiums are so high! Xian is suing everyone!



So you would sue bcbs for following their corporate guidlines and denying coverage? If not, what are the types of suits you are talking about here? Bring back the dead suits? Just trying to understand where you are coming from.