Democrats Seem Set to Go It Alone on a Health Bill

[PETA]

Originally Posted by tragicallyunhip

Well, I think what people are worried about is how there don't seem to be any moderate Republicans left. The evangelical Right has completely taken over the party, and it's whipping people up into this frenzy. Even my own mother, who I've previously been able to discuss politics with calmly and rationally, is convinced Obama is going to start rounding dissenters up and placing them in detainment centers. This is something she literally thinks is going to happen.

People have lost their damned minds.

mweh... we just went through 8 years of the same thing from the otherside of the political spectrum... remember GW was building all kinds of secret prisons to house dissenters etc etc

The GOP hasn't been taken over by evangelicals... they left in droves when McCain got nominated. The GOP is simply in the wildreness.... though the Dems are giving the squishy middle a lot of reasons to rfeconsider them.

[tricky]

I'll venture to say that there is a clear majority that want health care reform and the main thing holding it back (along with the 'approval ratings') is the sheer amount of disinformation, lies, and slander being spread by the right. Go ahead and push it through.

[name change request]

Originally Posted by tricky

I'll venture to say that there is a clear majority that want health care reform and the main thing holding it back (along with the 'approval ratings') is the sheer amount of disinformation, lies, and slander being spread by the right. Go ahead and push it through.

the clear majority of who? the American people?

what's holding it back is out Govt trying to work out the details.

sure, there is disinformation coming out in the media... but that has nothing to do with the legislation and how it's coming along. that just has an effect on people who watch and read the news.

i like Obama because he gives our country a better image.. finally we don't have a stuttering, bumbling idiot running our country. but even with all the town halls and all the hope and all this other shit, we have just as much say in healthcare as we would if Bush was in office. the politicians will decide what healthcare legislation gets passed. you can go to all the town halls you want and it won't make a damn bit of difference.

[e-brake]

Regardless of what happens none of it is going to help me with my current healthcare nightmare so I have officially reached the point of not giving a fuck anymore. From this point on I am just going to rack up medical bills and file for bankruptcy every 7 -10 years.

If they manage to pass some legislation to fix the system cool, if it doesnt work out no biggie, Im not going to pay anyway.

[tricky]

Originally Posted by name change request

the clear majority of who? the American people?

what's holding it back is out Govt trying to work out the details.

sure, there is disinformation coming out in the media... but that has nothing to do with the legislation and how it's coming along. that just has an effect on people who watch and read the news.

yes, clear majority of the american people.

working out the details is not holding it back...the plans are out there and ready to go. what's holding it back is this bullshit "compromising" in the senate. The house is more than ready to go but people like baccus and his cronies in the senate are selling out to big business while fucking over the american people in the name of "compromise".

[tricky]

Originally Posted by e-brake

If they manage to pass some legislation to fix the system cool, if it doesnt work out no biggie, Im not going to pay anyway.

hahaha. you shoulda seen the letter i sent the debt collector for the $600 dollar bill i received for >5 minutes of service in the er plus a script.

[name change request]

Originally Posted by tricky

yes, clear majority of the american people.

the American people wanting it is what got the debate started and our govt working on it... beyond that it doesnt matter because the clear majority of the American people don't understand the issue and the problems with passing the legislation.

working out the details is not holding it back...the plans are out there and ready to go. what's holding it back is this bullshit "compromising" in the senate.

compromising isn't bullshit. it's the only way something this big can get an agreement.

[tricky]

Originally Posted by name change request

the American people wanting it is what got the debate started and our govt working on it... beyond that it doesnt matter because the clear majority of the American people don't understand the issue and the problems with passing the legislation.



compromising isn't bullshit. it's the only way something this big can get an agreement.

Well, a clear majority of cable viewers watch foxnews instead of msnbc or cnn... i'm not suprised at all that they don't understand it...but in no way does that mean i want or my senators or president to compromise on the core principles for reform just so "they get it" or to appease some

[name change request]

Originally Posted by tricky

Well, a clear majority of cable viewers watch foxnews instead of msnbc or cnn... i'm not suprised at all that they don't understand it...but in no way does that mean i want or my senators or president to compromise on the core principles for reform just so "they get it"

i have no clue why you're going down this road in this argument

our govt passing legislation is one thing. the American people understanding it is another thing. our govt will pass the legislation it wants to pass whether the American people understand it or not. there is no correlation there.

[tricky]

Originally Posted by name change request

i have no clue why you're going down this road in this argument

our govt passing legislation is one thing. the American people understanding it is another thing. our govt will pass the legislation it wants to pass whether the American people understand it or not. there is no correlation there.

ummm...town hall meeting and the lies have a direct correlation on how congresspeople vote.

what are you missing about that? they've been brainwashed by fauxnews and now congress is apprehensive about enacting change due to fear of reelection and their indentured servitude to big business. it's all tied together.

[name change request]

disagree completely. politicians can lie to get re-elected but they'll pass legislation whenever they pass legislation regardless of all that nonsense.

[PETA]

Originally Posted by tricky

they've been brainwashed by fauxnews and now congress is apprehensive about enacting change due to fear of reelection and their indentured servitude to big business.

This is exactly the attitude that is damaging the Dems. People who disagree with you must be fools, liars and automatons.

As far as being indentured to big business... um, you're familiar with the Big Pharma memo? The DNC is the part of big business... they came to DC hat in hand and left with billions.

Originally Posted by tricky

Senator Judd Gregg (R-NH) says it's either the "bipartisan" Senate bill (you know, the one with no public option, and not much of anything else, and which Republicans aren't even going to be voting for anyway) or nothing:

that's exactly what I'm describing... he's no more willing to accept things he finds unacceptable that you would... you just disagree on what is or is not acceptable

[tricky]

Senator Judd Gregg (R-NH) says it's either the "bipartisan" Senate bill (you know, the one with no public option, and not much of anything else, and which Republicans aren't even going to be voting for anyway) or nothing:

Well, I think the real question is — if there is a bipartisan bill that comes out of the Senate, and there may well be, because the Baucus-Grassley group is working hard, you’ve got the Wyden-Bennett bill as you mentioned, which is bipartisan — how do you preserve the bipartisan elements of that bill when you go to conference with the House and you’ve got people like Speaker Pelosi who are absolutely committed to having the government take over the system? And that I think is the great, is the big hurdle here.
In other words, why would people sign onto a bill in the Senate if they know that the Speaker of the House and the President’s people are going to torpedo that bill and move towards the government plan when it gets into conference? So unless the President comes out and says he’s for the bipartisan bill as it leaves the Senate, and he’s going to stand by that bill as it goes to conference, I don’t think you’re going to get a bill here.

Whenever one of these senators pops up saying something especially anti-reform or just plain stupid in the healthcare debate, or when someone like Grassley latches on to the notion that healthcare reform is going to kill your grandma, I go check out Nate Silver's chart that lists which senators get the largest percentage of corporate PAC money in relation to individual contributions. What is useful about this chart is that it doesn't just show who brings in the most corporate cash, but how dependent each senator is on that cash compared to the cash they get as donations from their own constituents.
http://images2.dailykos.com/images/u.../pacfunds1.PNG
... and whenever I look on that short list of senators most indebted to corporate PAC donations, the anti-reform senator in question is always on that list. Always. In this case, Judd Gregg is #3.
Max Baucus himself is on that list too, of course. As is Grassley. And Conrad. And Nelson. And Enzi. And so on. In fact, Max Baucus' entire bipartisan "negotiating" group -- all six of them -- are on that list.
So golly gee, that one small list of corporate PAC beneficiaries sure seems to have predictive powers, when it comes to what position someone will take in the healthcare debate, and how "concerned" they are about the potential tragedy of government competition against corporate interests.

There's no question but that the goal of those like Grassley, Nelson, Conrad and yes, Gregg is to kill reform dead, or barring that water it down so that it does not so much as strike even a glancing blow against insurance industry profits. That's why we're a hell of a lot closer to seeing a provision out of the Senate mandating that every American must buy private insurance from the companies in question than we are to any provision meant to reduce costs or encourage competition.
But it's important to remember that these people, this small handful of very "bipartisan" senators who are the single biggest roadblock to American healthcare reform, due to their insistence on bending to the needs of corporations to make a profit in the deal, just somehow are coincidentally the very same senators who are most dependent on corporate contributions. When it comes to elections, the people living in the states they represent are not their most important constituents.
Healthcare reform -- the whole concept, the very possibility of reform at all -- is being held hostage. Unfortunately for us, we don't have much hope of coming up with the ransom money. We don't have that kind of cash.

[name change request]

Originally Posted by PETA

As far as being indentured to big business... um, you're familiar with the Big Pharma memo? The DNC is the part of big business... they came to DC hat in hand and left with billions.

exactly. Obama supporters need to realize that Obama is not always right and the Democrats sure as fuck aren't. They need to remember that when they are constantly harping on about how the Republicans are evil.

they are all fucking politicians.

[tricky]

which is why i only support progressive democrats. most of the democrats and 100% of the republicans are useless..

read that post from dailykos joel