Democrats Seem Set to Go It Alone on a Health Bill

[johnny861]

Originally Posted by I AM EL-NINO

.
Even the people trying to defend it cant sell it or show where these town hall people are wrong in thier assumptions.

Which assumptions are you referring to? The assumptions comparing the health plan to Nazism? or the Death Panel part?

The Mob tends to ask some tough questions and by tough questions, anything asked that would invoke a WTF expression on objective people's faces.

[johnny861]

I say let the Democrats put the healthcare measures in place.

If it succeeds, well good on Obama.

However, if it fails, Rush Limbaugh will probably cum all over himself, Conservatives across the country will rejoice, the republicans will rule once again for the next few years (3 or 4 years should cover the attention spam of most Americans), they'll undo all the healthcare measures and bring things back to the status quo and we'll just borrow more money from China and Japan to cover it all.

What's the problem folks?

[matt]

joel im messing with you.

[name change request]

hmmm ok.

i was actually liking where the conversation was going. i'm curious why single payer system supporters feel that way.

and i honestly did think medicare was single payer. were you messing around with me when you said it wasn't, or is it really single payer?

the healthcare plan that i liked the most so far actually came from a couple Republicans, or at least that's who was talking about it... not sure who actually came up with the idea. it was related to allowing the American people access to the same healthcare plans that federal workers have.

[matt]

its a single payor in a multi payor system. sorry fucking with a huge generic launch and needed an output!

the appeals court just sided with the generic mfr's and put generic eloxatin back innto the market after sanofi tried to appeals its release and ok by the fda.

my job sounds FUN i know, lol!

[name change request]

Originally Posted by matt

its a single payor in a multi payor system

okay.. so it's like a hybrid system which is what France has. except currently not everyone can get medicare.

my understanding is that medicare is broken for the large part. i've seen stats that said that most medicare users have to have supplemental insurance in order to get the healthcare they need.

so, all messing around aside, if medicare is a single payer system and it's broken the way it currently is run... why would that be something that we would want to offer the entire country?

[matt]

definitely not saying it is. main argument is around cost savings because there is only one entity when working to get reimbursement. costs savings can come in the form or controlled leakage, care given in the proper setting (clinic vs hospital), intense standardization so there is a forecast in the cost of care (One of the hardest things to do in healthcare becaause of loose guidelines and treatments) and the best/most cost affordable treatment when looking at similar efficacy can be given, price controls on drugs like 340b pricing (drug pricing parody - govt run), and a few others that do not come to mind at the moment. those are the major reasons that i have heard.

yes, most medicare patients can not pay the copay without secondary or supplemental so most do not get treated (at least when considering a costly oncology treatment).

back to work

[david austin]

Originally Posted by I AM EL-NINO

He could come out and admit that he changed his mind from 2003 about advocating single payer healthcare. Last week he mentioned never saying it in his "town hall meeting" setup. He could say that "I know I said in 2007 that I want to remove employer based healthcare plans and that it would take some time to achieve that, but I have reconsidered that and now have a different viewpoint". This would greatly improve my opinions of him. But he doesnt do it even though he knows we have all seen this from him on Youtube and the like. Doesnt do much for his credibility.

See... thats the thing. Politicians play whatever card they need to get what they want NOW. Later those cards may change depending on any number of reasons.

Its like Barney Frank wanting to drop the hammer on the big bad lenders who tried to put everyone in a house when years ago he made a passionate speech wanting to push everyone into a house via these great deals in lending.

What I dont get is why people cant just come out and say 'I WAS WRONG'.

A shit ton of people already dont trust the government to truly take care of them. Many Americans have lost half of their wealth. Their homes are underwater. They cant find jobs.

And now you have Obama and his admin going back and forth in one of the greatest 6 months in clusterfucks I have ever seen or read about. What were the TWO biggest campaign points? Taxes and Healthcare. Like it or not he cannot get away with his plans without raising taxes. Im sure thats not upsetting anyone. Next? Healthcare. Now you have complete lapses within his own admin on who says what like when the 'public option' info was released. And theres no need to touch the town hall debacles.

The admin that was supposed to come in and make sweeping changes is tripping all over its shoelaces. Its saying all the wrong things and instilling absolutely ZERO confidence in ANYTHING less you be drinking the kool aid that everything is going to be alright.

[I AM EL-NINO]

Originally Posted by tricky

hahaha. you shoulda seen the letter i sent the debt collector for the $600 dollar bill i received for >5 minutes of service in the er plus a script.

Are you not going to pay it?

[I AM EL-NINO]

Originally Posted by johnny861

Which assumptions are you referring to? The assumptions comparing the health plan to Nazism? or the Death Panel part?

The Mob tends to ask some tough questions and by tough questions, anything asked that would invoke a WTF expression on objective people's faces.

Any of it. I have yet to see anyone answer any questions at all. Anytime someone asks a question you just get a politician all defensive and calling people mobs. Down here at Sheila Jackson Lee's town hall she hardley had time to answer any questions because she was taking cell phone calls during the questions from God only knows. Never answered a single question.

[I AM EL-NINO]

Originally Posted by david austin

See... thats the thing. Politicians play whatever card they need to get what they want NOW. Later those cards may change depending on any number of reasons.

Its like Barney Frank wanting to drop the hammer on the big bad lenders who tried to put everyone in a house when years ago he made a passionate speech wanting to push everyone into a house via these great deals in lending.

What I dont get is why people cant just come out and say 'I WAS WRONG'.

A shit ton of people already dont trust the government to truly take care of them. Many Americans have lost half of their wealth. Their homes are underwater. They cant find jobs.

And now you have Obama and his admin going back and forth in one of the greatest 6 months in clusterfucks I have ever seen or read about. What were the TWO biggest campaign points? Taxes and Healthcare. Like it or not he cannot get away with his plans without raising taxes. Im sure thats not upsetting anyone. Next? Healthcare. Now you have complete lapses within his own admin on who says what like when the 'public option' info was released. And theres no need to touch the town hall debacles.

The admin that was supposed to come in and make sweeping changes is tripping all over its shoelaces. Its saying all the wrong things and instilling absolutely ZERO confidence in ANYTHING less you be drinking the kool aid that everything is going to be alright.

And the people who dont recognize this completly amaze me. They continue to back up what I would call straight bullshit lies. Its like they dont want to admit it because they have so much hate for the rest of us. Just like I saw in this thread "Fuck um...ram it down thier throats" or something of that nature.
They know not what they do.

[tricky]

Why aren't the religious right fighting tooth and nail for the Public Option? I mean, they go ape shit all over protecting the life of a fetus; why not the life of a full grown human?

heh

[johnny861]

Originally Posted by I AM EL-NINO

Any of it. I have yet to see anyone answer any questions at all. Anytime someone asks a question you just get a politician all defensive and calling people mobs. Down here at Sheila Jackson Lee's town hall she hardley had time to answer any questions because she was taking cell phone calls during the questions from God only knows. Never answered a single question.

Really? So if I asked a politician how does the healthcare reform play into the extraterrestial invasion plans that the CIA is covering up from the people, you would expect them to answer?

Wouldn't it make more sense to try to brush through the noise and get to answering substantial questions?

[johnny861]

Originally Posted by david austin

See... thats the thing. Politicians play whatever card they need to get what they want NOW. Later those cards may change depending on any number of reasons.

Exactly. Just like republicans being against government pushing for living wills (in the healthcare reform), but being all for advance directives being encouraged by state and federal governments.

[PETA]

Originally Posted by tricky

heh

because 1) they're advocating protecting the life of innocent who cannot do so itself whereas an adult can and 2) they tend to prefer personal responsibility over relying on the government to take care of them

Originally Posted by johnny861

Exactly. Just like republicans being against government pushing for living wills (in the healthcare reform), but being all for advance directives being encouraged by state and federal governments.

advanced directives and living wills are a matter of personal choice... either "yes, please pul the plug" or "no, please don't pull the plug" not a matter of party policy

its true that conservatives will tend to lean towards choice B but that's, again, a matter of personal choice not policy advocacy... no?