Why do you support Communist/Socialist ideology?

[PETA]

Originally Posted by J. Fees

the airlines have been pretty successfull as well..........

and you are going to blame cali for enron grossly inflating energy rates?

The consumer has benefitted greatly from airline deregulation which, afaik used to go so far as to set pricing.

Yes, I'm blaming CA for the prices Enron charged CA. CA ws over a barrel. They needed the energy (I was living there at the time) and refused to produce it locally. When you must by a product from some one else and they know that you must buy... they tend to give it to you hard. In a deregulated market the consumer can price shop. With no other options to buyer, seller is in a great position to make tons of cash. And Enron did.

Enron's biggest fault was fraud, book cooking etc criminal acts.

[matias pecile]

there are recordings of enron traders calling up power plants and asking to shut them down

most definitely enron's biggest fault was fraud, fraud that was not seen because there was no oversight

[david austin]

Originally Posted by matias pecile

fraud that was not seen because there was no oversight

The Fed
FASB
Banks
Rating Agencies

Theres four that could use some oversight.

Will Obama come through? Doubtful.

[matias pecile]

I agree 100% with you DA .. I do NOT trust the fed. the whole concept of it just seems like a way to launder money

[PETA]

Originally Posted by matias pecile

there are recordings of enron traders calling up power plants and asking to shut them down

most definitely enron's biggest fault was fraud, fraud that was not seen because there was no oversight

Regulation doesn't tell energy roducers how much energy to produce, when to produce it, what plants to run at full capacity etc. That Enron behaved mercilessly with its pricing is a matter of record but to suggest that regulation would have prevented the criminal acts and mercinary corporate leadership isn't very likely.

Regarding fraud, it follows logically from what you imply that any industry that has a bad actor committing fraud needs heavy government oversight to prevent the directors and officers from committing a crime. That's not really how we handle things.

Originally Posted by david austin

The Fed
FASB
Banks
Rating Agencies

Theres four that could use some oversight.

Will Obama come through? Doubtful.

the FED was designed to operate outside of Executive oversight in order to prevent the FED from becoming a political tool. Damned if you do....

Ratings agencies... what are you going to do? Demand people actually read the bond issue rating opinions? Afaik the bond rating agencies who issued those good ratings for the securitized trusts issuing bonds released a lengthy explanation of how they reached their ratings... a method that was horseshit but nobody bothered much to care because everybody was making money. Further, the actual value of bonds changes faster than rationgs agencies can address the changes. Could be that these agencies simply go the way of the dodo. I'm not so certain that regulation is the answer but I'd like to think a transparency requirement could help. You'd still be stuck with the consumer needing to do his own due diligence but at least it'd be better than relying on ratings agencies to do it for you?

Banks already are heavily regulated through FDIC etc

[I AM EL-NINO]

Originally Posted by matias pecile

there are recordings of enron traders calling up power plants and asking to shut them down

most definitely enron's biggest fault was fraud, fraud that was not seen because there was no oversight

Links? Not that I give a shit about thieving Enron execs from 2001 as I try to live in the "today" scheme of things. As a Houstonian I have never heard of that and am interested in checking that out.

There were regulations. Probably to many. Dont kid yourself into thinking some people on the Gov. level wernt looking the other way in order for laws to be broken and pockets to be lined.

[J. Fees]

Originally Posted by I AM EL-NINO

Links? Not that I give a shit about thieving Enron execs from 2001 as I try to live in the "today" scheme of things. As a Houstonian I have never heard of that and am interested in checking that out.

There were regulations. Probably to many. Dont kid yourself into thinking some people on the Gov. level wernt looking the other way in order for laws to be broken and pockets to be lined.

via wiki

Lay was one of America's highest-paid CEOs, earning, for example, a $42.4 million compensation package in 1999.[5] In December 2000, Lay was mentioned as a possible candidate for President Bush's Treasury secretary along with J.P. Morgan & Co. head Douglas A. Warner III and a few others.

http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/bushlay1.html

yeah, someone was prolly looking the other way.

[PETA]

Originally Posted by J. Fees

via wiki



http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/bushlay1.html

yeah, someone was prolly looking the other way.

Are you suggesting that but for his consideration for a cabinet position his salary would have been reason for regulators to come down on Enron and the fiasco would have been avoided?


One thing that few people are aware of is that Enron was the recipient of some mighty bad tax advice from V&E nearly ruined the firm.

Enron received tax advice that pushed legal boundaries from established companies such as Bankers Trust and from its outside law firm, Vinson & Elkins, the congressional panel said in a report on its yearlong probe of Enron's tax records.

The company's tax department became a profit center, with its own annual revenue targets, the report says.


http://accounting.smartpros.com/x37114.xml

[Dionysos]

Originally Posted by I AM EL-NINO

Links? Not that I give a shit about thieving Enron execs from 2001 as I try to live in the "today" scheme of things. As a Houstonian I have never heard of that and am interested in checking that out.

There were regulations. Probably to many. Dont kid yourself into thinking some people on the Gov. level wernt looking the other way in order for laws to be broken and pockets to be lined.

Watch the documentary 'Smartest Guys in the Room', it does a good job of recounting the whole Enron debacle.

[zerojunkie]

Originally Posted by I AM EL-NINO

lollzzz at the leftist responses.

lolzz, like how you were talking about starting an armed revolt over the white house wanting your grandma to send them the chain letter she got concerning health care reform?

[PETA]

Originally Posted by zerojunkie

lolzz, like how you were talking about starting an armed revolt over the white house wanting your grandma to send them the chain letter she got concerning health care reform?

probably a little less nasty than Tricky's reign of terror

[david austin]

Originally Posted by PETA

the FED was designed to operate outside of Executive oversight in order to prevent the FED from becoming a political tool. Damned if you do....

Expanding the monetary base by trillions while presiding over a 95% loss in its value.

Operation outside of oversight IS the inherent problem.

Banks already are heavily regulated through FDIC etc

And they sure are some do some good policing dont they

[PETA]

Originally Posted by david austin

Expanding the monetary base by trillions while presiding over a 95% loss in its value.

Operation outside of oversight IS the inherent problem.

Not claiming that it isn't troublesome - just pointing out that it was designed to be outside of executive control and why

Originally Posted by david austin

And they sure are some do some good policing dont they

Depends on what they are policing doesn't it?

If what we have no doesn't work what makes you think more will be better?

Further, if regulation would have prevented the current recession please show me which more heavily regulated economy (nearly all others) fared better than we have?

I'm not opposed to regulation per se but often blanket claims regarding the need to regulate more fail to actually look at the reality of what such regulation would entail. You know that.

[david austin]

Originally Posted by PETA

Depends on what they are policing doesn't it?

If what we have no doesn't work what makes you think more will be better?

Further, if regulation would have prevented the current recession please show me which more heavily regulated economy (nearly all others) fared better than we have?

I'm not opposed to regulation per se but often blanket claims regarding the need to regulate more fail to actually look at the reality of what such regulation would entail. You know that.

Obviously... just saying that the 'oversight' and 'regulation' we have is sub par at best.

I am not looking towards massive regulation where I have to get a congressional waiver to release a chart pdf lol... but allowing what was allowed to happen over the past 10 years to boil under the surface, ultimately explode to the surface, and then try and sweep under the rug so it can boil further is borderline criminal.

Essentially the oversight we do have is crap. Everyone is bed with everyone else. Unfortunately we have come too far to fix it without severe consequences for most of us. The longer this all goes on the harder the fall... and eventually it will lead to wars, regime changes, etc...

[Ottica B]

i support Socialist ideology cuz i don't want church goers to kill me. i also support it due to the fact that without it alot of you would get your shit took from you from angry hardcore thugs that don't give a fuck. communist ideology would not be the route to go during these days son. i mean all our jobs in certain area's are being given to people over sea's not to mention the economy is hurting like hell currently. there is alot to think about as a young American growing up in the world today who is communist.