Immigration

[FarangBa]

Originally Posted by tricky

I can trace my ancestors back to before the revolutionary war....so the rest of you fucktards can suck my dick and take your ass back to your mother country

ps.

when glen beck says "i want my country back" i cant help but think of the indians...

Interesting topic Tricky... which lie about the "Indian Genocide" would you like me to debunk for you today. I only argued this point daily in Kolledge, yuk, yuk!

Feel free "old indoctrinated one".

[FarangBa]

Originally Posted by zerojunkie

The topic's been broached a couple times on here but hasn't had it's own thread in a while. I'd like to know if those of you who are for enforcing the current laws had ancestors who immigrated here, and if they had to deal with the quota system that's been in place since 1924?

Most of my ancestors have been here since before 1800. Some after, mixture of Scottish (NorthEast), Cherokee (Alabama), French (New Orleans) through East Texas to here (1958).

[tricky]

Originally Posted by FarangBa

Interesting topic Tricky... which lie about the "Indian Genocide" would you like me to debunk for you today. I only argued this point daily in Kolledge, yuk, yuk!

Feel free "old indoctrinated one".

wtf are you talking about

[zerojunkie]

Originally Posted by FarangBa

Interesting topic Tricky... which lie about the "Indian Genocide" would you like me to debunk for you today. I only argued this point daily in Kolledge, yuk, yuk!

Feel free "old indoctrinated one".

They were still forcibly displaced from lands they'd inhabited for thousands of years, but that's about as far as I'm wading into the debate. The real irony is that more than likely Glenn Beck's ancestors, just like yours, came here when there were virtually no limits on immigration, and certainly not the arbitrary quotas that are in place today. So how do you reconcile the fervent support for stronger borders and reduced immigration when the people crossing the border now are only making the same trek your own ancestors made 200 years ago?

[PETA]

Originally Posted by zerojunkie

They were still forcibly displaced from lands they'd inhabited for thousands of years,

Same can be said about thousands of peoples planet wide... there's a spectacular chance that each displaced tribe... had displaced the tribe that occupied the same land prior to them. You've alluded to the Noble Savage myth. Native americans did not live at peace and in harmony with nature and others... they fought wars all the time. They DID understand property rights... they fought wars over who controlled what territory. They did NOT take only that which they could use - they were spectacularly wasteful in many cases; just an easy one, the technique of stampeding herd of buffalo over cliffs - they couldn't possible use all of the meat, bone, sinew etc...

sorry, didn't mean to rag you out into deeper water... just felt like bitching

[zerojunkie]

Originally Posted by PETA

Same can be said about thousands of peoples planet wide... there's a spectacular chance that each displaced tribe... had displaced the tribe that occupied the same land prior to them. You've alluded to the Noble Savage myth. Native americans did not live at peace and in harmony with nature and others... they fought wars all the time. They DID understand property rights... they fought wars over who controlled what territory. They did NOT take only that which they could use - they were spectacularly wasteful in many cases; just an easy one, the technique of stampeding herd of buffalo over cliffs - they couldn't possible use all of the meat, bone, sinew etc...

sorry, didn't mean to rag you out into deeper water... just felt like bitching

Bitch away, I mostly agree. However I will say that just because displacement is part of the human condition doesn't, in most cases, make it right. Life's not fair, I know, blah blah blah.

[PETA]

Originally Posted by zerojunkie

Bitch away, I mostly agree. However I will say that just because displacement is part of the human condition doesn't, in most cases, make it right. Life's not fair, I know, blah blah blah.

wasn't a comment on the issue of fairness - just noting the shaft they took is little different from the historical experience of thousands of other nations

[jaesun]

Well if its in all the American school books then it must be true.

Columbus was a war criminal. Indians were a peace loving earth people until the white man came and killed them all off. Slavery was the only reason for the Civil war. etc. etc. etc.

[PETA]

racist!

[FarangBa]

Originally Posted by zerojunkie

They were still forcibly displaced from lands they'd inhabited for thousands of years, but that's about as far as I'm wading into the debate. The real irony is that more than likely Glenn Beck's ancestors, just like yours, came here when there were virtually no limits on immigration, and certainly not the arbitrary quotas that are in place today. So how do you reconcile the fervent support for stronger borders and reduced immigration when the people crossing the border now are only making the same trek your own ancestors made 200 years ago?

Dude, that's what you call 'moral relativism' & I ain't playin'.

If you want to change the current quota system it is done exactly the same way that the system was emplaced! You get enough people to storm the town hall meetings of your Senators and Representatives and you tell them you want the quotas increased.

You don't just start 'ignoring' our laws because you think it's MEAN... all the while banrupting our economy, dragging down our healthcare system and skyrocketing our crime rates, that's not even mentioning the fact that what you are doing is actually UNFAIR to the illegal aliens

[FarangBa]

Originally Posted by jaesun

Well if its in all the American school books then it must be true.

Columbus was a war criminal. Indians were a peace loving earth people until the white man came and killed them all off. Slavery was the only reason for the Civil war. etc. etc. etc.

HaHa... don't get me started on the textbooks. I'm quite positive where Tricky Dicks assertions about the Native Americans have come from (although he probably does not).... But he refused to play.

[zerojunkie]

Originally Posted by FarangBa

Dude, that's what you call 'moral relativism' & I ain't playin'.

If you want to change the current quota system it is done exactly the same way that the system was emplaced! You get enough people to storm the town hall meetings of your Senators and Representatives and you tell them you want the quotas increased.

You don't just start 'ignoring' our laws because you think it's MEAN... all the while banrupting our economy, dragging down our healthcare system and skyrocketing our crime rates, that's not even mentioning the fact that what you are doing is actually UNFAIR to the illegal aliens

Shit, I'd written this thread off, but thanks for answering. I'm not advocating ignoring the laws that are currently in place. I'm simply pointing out how disconnected they are with reality. When people can risk their lives for a job here they know they can get then it's fairly obvious that the current quotas are far too low. I don't think you can really say with certainty how much of a drain they are on our economy/healthcare/judicial systems since you can't quantify any kind of positive effects they may have because of their status either.

[Rick Mage]

Originally Posted by zerojunkie

The real irony is that more than likely Glenn Beck's ancestors, just like yours, came here when there were virtually no limits on immigration, and certainly not the arbitrary quotas that are in place today.

And you see what happened, after that?? If the Indians would have at least had some type of decent boarder patrol, they might still be owning this country..

[jaesun]

"They took our jobs"

[PETA]

Originally Posted by zerojunkie

Shit, I'd written this thread off, but thanks for answering. I'm not advocating ignoring the laws that are currently in place. I'm simply pointing out how disconnected they are with reality. When people can risk their lives for a job here they know they can get then it's fairly obvious that the current quotas are far too low. I don't think you can really say with certainty how much of a drain they are on our economy/healthcare/judicial systems since you can't quantify any kind of positive effects they may have because of their status either.

I believe there are fairly decent quantitative studies showing the economic cost impact illegal immigrants cause weighted against benefits given. We're in the red big time.

I agree that quotas are too low if people risk life and limb to come here but they don't really risk life and limb. While true some do, the overwhelming majority get here much more easuily and safely.

lastly, as I said in another thread, other waves of immigrants from everywhere else came across oceans and assimilated within three generations. Mexican immigration presents a unique challenge in that it's next door. The second generation tends to assimilate... a bit... and elevate its income level but it caps at the third (speaking in gross generalities but they are gnerally true) and they tend to maintain more segregated communities longer generationally. (Chinatowns in NYC and SF would be notable exceptions)

Originally Posted by Rick Mage

And you see what happened, after that?? If the Indians would have at least had some type of decent boarder patrol, they might still be owning this country..

Bullshit, we kicked their asses six ways from Sunday and bottled them up on reservations. Native American border enforcement was as piss poor as anything you can imagine but that's what happens when an industrial culture runs into a stone age culture.