So Tell Me, How Will The Gov't Fix IT?

[FarangBa]

If Health Care in the United States is so terrible and expensive, how will the government fix this?

[FarangBa]

How did the government do with Amtrak? Why would Congress refuse to shut down just (1) route that would save 15million a year?

[johnny861]

Originally Posted by FarangBa

How did the government do with Amtrak? Why would Congress refuse to shut down just (1) route that would save 15million a year?

By that logic, they could shut it all down and save a lot more money.

[matt]

why do you even care dude? you dont actually read anything ever posted and you have your mind made up about everything in advance. i, for one, think you are a grade a moron with some serious issues from your time in the military. you arent swaying anyone with your "logic", so why spend all day getting your feathers in a ruffle, lol.

[DataBass]

Originally Posted by matt

why do you even care dude? you dont actually read anything ever posted and you have your mind made up about everything in advance. i, for one, think you are a grade a moron with some serious issues from your time in the military. you arent swaying anyone with your "logic", so why spend all day getting your feathers in a ruffle, lol.

......................

[FarangBa]

Originally Posted by matt

why do you even care dude? you dont actually read anything ever posted and you have your mind made up about everything in advance. i, for one, think you are a grade a moron with some serious issues from your time in the military. you arent swaying anyone with your "logic", so why spend all day getting your feathers in a ruffle, lol.

Whadddya mean Matt? How do you figure I don't read anything posted?

You might be surprised at exactly how much I DO read on a daily basis. Probably more than you.

I certainly don't spend all day getting my feathers in a ruffle on DDM per se. I'm just posting about new info that I learn about during the day... Just like everyone else on here.

And what's your problem with my service in the military? Why would I have "serious issues" from my time? Stop talking out of your third point of contact and try to make some sense.

[J. Fees]

basically you post with a religious zeal for the right and a hate for any thing that isnt on the right wing side of things. then you post it in an aggressive way and start yelling at anyone that doesnt agree with you. i mean tricky, xian, myself and other can get all snide, but you seriously sound like you are about to break out an ak 47, a rambo survival knife and are ready to track someone down for death.

you posted amtrak as a comparison for the federal health care reform bill.

We all know that amtrak was a total disaster. But is everything the gov't touches a disaster. are you going to post every negative thing the gov't has ever done as a total failure. The gov't funds the military, is that a failure? The post office, is/has that been a total failure? Its like me saying 'the cowboys suck at offense, why would they try to get a new left guard?'. Or saying that the food industry is completely corrupt and has questionable packing issues. Does that mean i should never go to chick fil a?

[johnny861]

Originally Posted by J. Fees

Or saying that the food industry is completely corrupt and has questionable packing issues.

Maybe questionable government regulation issues. Frozen pizzas are regulated by the FDA with their own guidelines, inspectors, etc., unless they are pepperoni pizzas. Those fall under USDA regulation with their own guidelines, inspectors, etc...

[J. Fees]

its a pretty known fact that a lot of the meat packing is substandard even in the us. and i know there are us food inspectors. thats not going to factor into whether i think health care reform is going to work or not.

[FarangBa]

Originally Posted by johnny861

By that logic, they could shut it all down and save a lot more money.

Since Congress 'created' Amtrak in 1970 as a "FOR-PROFIT" corporation. they've lost money every single year since. I'm talking about the 'Sunset Limited' line that runs from Los Angeles to New Orleans and requires a $466 gov't subsidy for every paying customer. Cutting just this one line, would save over $15 million a year.

Soooo that would NOT be the same logic.

However, that IS a pretty good tactic you may not even be aware that you are using. The public discourse has been so degraded over the past few years... that I don't even know if most people realize they were indoctrinated or if they were 'actually' trained in this. This is a tactic used to silence the opposition.

RULE 4: "Make the enemy live up to its own book of rules." If the rule is that every letter gets a reply, send 30,000 letters. You can kill them with this because no one can possibly obey all of their own rules. (This is a serious rule. The besieged entity's very credibility and reputation is at stake, because if activists catch it lying or not living up to its commitments, they can continue to chip away at the damage.)

[FarangBa]

Originally Posted by J. Fees

basically you post with a religious zeal for the right and a hate for any thing that isnt on the right wing side of things. then you post it in an aggressive way and start yelling at anyone that doesnt agree with you. i mean tricky, xian, myself and other can get all snide, but you seriously sound like you are about to break out an ak 47, a rambo survival knife and are ready to track someone down for death.

you posted amtrak as a comparison for the federal health care reform bill.

We all know that amtrak was a total disaster. But is everything the gov't touches a disaster. are you going to post every negative thing the gov't has ever done as a total failure. The gov't funds the military, is that a failure? The post office, is/has that been a total failure? Its like me saying 'the cowboys suck at offense, why would they try to get a new left guard?'. Or saying that the food industry is completely corrupt and has questionable packing issues. Does that mean i should never go to chick fil a?

Dude, Calm down. First of all, an AK 47, although one of the most reliable weapons made, is crappy for use beyond 100m. After that you would just be 'spraying and praying' like the untrained terrorists. HaHa..

OK, first of all... I don't rail against someone with a general liberal point of view. I rail against 'actual' communist, socialist, statist, and other radical left wing ideals. I also rail against those of you who (I believe are moderate and realistic) -- but insist on defending the crazy and radical left-wing communist, socialist, statist and other radicals. Why do you insist on defending them??? I can't say for sure, but I can speculate. You have (either knowingly or unknowingly) been indoctrinated in their tactics and feel you must agree with them on everything - even if you only agree partially. Why? because who wants to be called: an idiot, a racist, a hate monger, a war monger... or any of the others?

QUICK EDIT: Oh and I forgot Homo-phobe, can't leave that one out.

[FarangBa]

Originally Posted by J. Fees

you posted amtrak as a comparison for the federal health care reform bill.

We all know that amtrak was a total disaster. But is everything the gov't touches a disaster. are you going to post every negative thing the gov't has ever done as a total failure. The gov't funds the military, is that a failure? The post office, is/has that been a total failure? Its like me saying 'the cowboys suck at offense, why would they try to get a new left guard?'. Or saying that the food industry is completely corrupt and has questionable packing issues. Does that mean i should never go to chick fil a?

Not exactly, I posted Amtrak as an example of how badly the Government runs 'anything'.

Originally Posted by J. Fees

The gov't funds the military, is that a failure?

It's an abject failure. Are we able to successfully conduct war? Yes, but the only reason everyone thinks the military is such a successfully run government entity... is because you are comparing them to every other military (gov't run entity). Compare it to even a badly run corporation and you see it is a bloated, over-regulated, under funded (or at least mis-appropriately funded), giant sesspool of special interests, pork-barrel spending, and a general environment of incompetence, ass-covering, zero-tolerance that has been reduced to rubble.

The only way that we successfully conduct war is because of the Patriotic Americans who; sign up to serve their country, who deal with very long separation from their family, who deal with B.S. rules-regulations that give the enemy the upperhand in every situation, who deal with what supplies they have as best they can, who strain and strive to operate in an ever constricting operational environment and rules of engagement... nevertheless, they gladly look their own mortality in the eye every single time they leave the safety of their base in the hope that they can make it through alive for just one more day.. which will get them 1 day closer to coming back home.

Originally Posted by J. Fees

The post office, is/has that been a total failure? Its like me saying 'the cowboys suck at offense, why would they try to get a new left guard?'. Or saying that the food industry is completely corrupt and has questionable packing issues. Does that mean i should never go to chick fil a?

The USPS, your not serious are you?

in 1971 the Post Office Department was changed over to the quasi-governmental run USPS that it is today. Of course it is run by a board of 11 (including 9 appointed by the President).. [not political at all].
-They have to adhere to a complex set of regulations mandating that each class of mail pays for itself

-In the mid 1970's the USPS wanted to take advantage of their 'semi-autonomous' status by closing underutilized post offices. The GAO study calculated that they could save $100 million/yr by closing 12,000 post offices (some of which served only a few people or were absurdly located close to other post offices)

-To stop it, politicians amended the "Postal Reorganization Act" to prohibit the closings, stating that "the rural post office has always been a uniquely American institution".

-1977: under pressure to keep postal rates low the USPS decided to suspend Saturday delivery which would save $400 million a year.. Good Idea? The American people thought so, polling stated that most people preferred the loss of Saturday delivery to increased stamp prices. But. Not for the Congress. So.. that's 500million a year for the past 30 years.

-2008: The USPS lost $2.8 Billion

-2009: Expected to low another $3-$6 Billion.

Just FYI

[FarangBa]

Oh, I suppose you want references:

Originally Posted by FarangBa

-In the mid 1970's the USPS wanted to take advantage of their 'semi-autonomous' status by closing underutilized post offices. The GAO study calculated that they could save $100 million/yr by closing 12,000 post offices (some of which served only a few people or were absurdly located close to other post offices)
---Roberd D. Behn"Closing a Government Facility," Public Administration Review, July/August 1978

-To stop it, politicians amended the "Postal Reorganization Act" to prohibit the closings, stating that "the rural post office has always been a uniquely American institution".
--James Wilson, "Bureaucracy: What Gov't Agencies DO and Why They Do It" (New York: Basic Books, 1991, p.123

-1977: under pressure to keep postal rates low the USPS decided to suspend Saturday delivery which would save $400 million a year.. Good Idea? The American people thought so, polling stated that most people preferred the loss of Saturday delivery to increased stamp prices. But. Not for the Congress. So.. that's 500million a year for the past 30 years.
--James Wilson, "Bureaucracy: What Gov't Agencies DO and Why They Do It" (New York: Basic Books, 1991, p.124

-2008: The USPS lost $2.8 Billion
---USPS, "Economy-Driven Mail Volume Decline COntributes to Postal Service $2.8 Billion Year-End Loss: FY 2008 Marked by Record On-Time Mail Delivery," news release, November 13, 2008 (http://www.usps.com/communications/n...8/pr08_118.htm)


-2009: Expected to low another $3-$6 Billion.
---Gregg Carlstorm, "Long Recession COuld Stymie USPS Struggle for Solvency," Federal Times, Feb 10, 2009 (http://federaltimes.com/index.php?S=3939859)
Just FYI

[OHMEGA]

I miss Alvin.

[johnny861]

Originally Posted by J. Fees

its a pretty known fact that a lot of the meat packing is substandard even in the us. and i know there are us food inspectors. thats not going to factor into whether i think health care reform is going to work or not.

I was just being silly, but yea.