Dems' healthcare bill passes in the House

[tragicallyunhip]

Originally Posted by PETA

link?

Let's just save ourselves a few paragraphs.

You:

http://www.weeklystandard.com/weblog..._to_put_he.asp

Me:

http://mediamatters.org/research/200911060016

[Alexis Gold]

Originally Posted by PETA

The issue isn't wanting vs not wanting

The issue is who gets to decide what is covered for whom, when and at what cost and the availability to effectively enage in dispute resolution.

Ever tried to sue the federal government?

I was replying to

moleculeRe: Dems' healthcare bill passes in the House
awesome! either buy health insurance, pay the tax penalty (2.5% more of your income), or go to jail.

can't wait till this thing gets rolling.

[Alexis Gold]

Originally Posted by tragicallyunhip

One Republican broke rank and voted for it. Don't know which one yet. Dunno why I'm updating here. Everybody's out. haha

Joseph Cao....um, he said he was voting "for life" - obviously TONS of stuff floating online from "he sold his soul to satan Obama" to "I have always said I would put aside partisan wrangling to do the business of the people (who send me the most campaign cash).

[vinnie97]

Originally Posted by Alexis Gold

I honestly don't know why you WOULDN'T want to have insurance. Geez. But then again I've had insurance my entire adult life. Oh except for 9 months out of THIS year.

Oh, I don't know, being forced by the hand of the government to purchase what their peddling doesn't sound constitutional to me. Medicare just got zapped to partially fund it and Obama has the gall to say the $1.2 trillion is paid for (ha!)...yea, at the barrel of the gun to the head of the American people.

In those 2000 pages, there's no tort reform or interstate competition provisions unless I've missed something? Leave those out and the cost problem isn't addressed, it's only enveloped in bureaucratic obfuscation and gives dear gubment more power to tell you what's best for you and what it deems you to need.

Oh, to say nothing of the unrelated tax hikes that many (even upper middle class in coming years) will be penalized with:

The Return of the Inflation Tax

Any spare "change" you had is about to go up in bureaucratic smoke.

[PETA]

Originally Posted by tragicallyunhip

Let's just save ourselves a few paragraphs.

You:

http://www.weeklystandard.com/weblog..._to_put_he.asp

Me:

http://mediamatters.org/research/200911060016

well that was easy enough

no clue what was said but thank you for making my participation in the thread no longer necessary

[Deff Gordon]

did anybody else notice when Nancy Pelosi was announcing the vote, she was so excited her nips were hard?

[tragicallyunhip]

Bwahahahahahahahahaha!

No, but it doesn't surprise me.

[tricky]

Originally Posted by PETA

well that was easy enough

no clue what was said but thank you for making my participation in the thread no longer necessary

hahahaha


it's funny when reality strikes...nothing to respond (lie) with.

!!!

to healthcare

*edit*

ps.

i went to a health care forum a few months ago with Rep. Cao and basically told him vote public option or GTFO

[elNastioBananaHando]

Guys this isn't a good thing. We're losing a ton of freedoms!

[jaesun]

Originally Posted by Deff Gordon

did anybody else notice when Nancy Pelosi was announcing the vote, she was so excited her nips were hard?

That was just the plastic hardening.

[Alexis Gold]

Originally Posted by vinnie97

Oh, I don't know, being forced by the hand of the government to purchase what their peddling doesn't sound constitutional to me. Medicare just got zapped to partially fund it and Obama has the gall to say the $1.2 trillion is paid for (ha!)...yea, at the barrel of the gun to the head of the American people.

In those 2000 pages, there's no tort reform or interstate competition provisions unless I've missed something? Leave those out and the cost problem isn't addressed, it's only enveloped in bureaucratic obfuscation and gives dear gubment more power to tell you what's best for you and what it deems you to need.

Oh, to say nothing of the unrelated tax hikes that many (even upper middle class in coming years) will be penalized with:

The Return of the Inflation Tax

Any spare "change" you had is about to go up in bureaucratic smoke.

You can still keep yr insurance if you want to. You don't have to change coverage.

[PETA]

Originally Posted by Alexis Gold

You can still keep yr insurance if you want to. You don't have to change coverage.

That was a promise Obama has carefully reworded to say the bill won't compel employers to put you onto a public option

It was changed because if the gov't offers a public option it cannot compel employers to continue to offer their employees the same coverage they currently have nor can the government compel insurers not to change the coverage they offer. The gov't can fine employers for failing to offer coverage but the fine (last number I saw) was lower than the cost of many current plans. If you ran a business and could cut costs drastically by dropping insurance w/out losing employees would you do it? Do you think other employers would? So, can Obama promise anyone that they won't have any change to their insurance if they don't want it?

A public option will have an impact on what employers offer to their employees and it will have an impact on what insurance companies offer. Exactly what remains to be seen.

So, when does this bill take effect?

[tragicallyunhip]

I don't know why we've tied health insurance in with employment in the first place. Wouldn't it make more sense to offer affordable insurance that people could pay out of pocket with the help of government subsidies possibly (you know, like in the plan that just got passed)? That way we wouldn't be SOL every time we change jobs, get fired, get laid off, etc.

[Nyteshade]

Originally Posted by PETA

That was a promise Obama has carefully reworded to say the bill won't compel employers to put you onto a public option

It was changed because if the gov't offers a public option it cannot compel employers to continue to offer their employees the same coverage they currently have nor can the government compel insurers not to change the coverage they offer. The gov't can fine employers for failing to offer coverage but the fine (last number I saw) was lower than the cost of many current plans. If you ran a business and could cut costs drastically by dropping insurance w/out losing employees would you do it? Do you think other employers would? So, can Obama promise anyone that they won't have any change to their insurance if they don't want it?

A public option will have an impact on what employers offer to their employees and it will have an impact on what insurance companies offer. Exactly what remains to be seen.

If I remember correctly, it's an 8% fine for employers. I'd have to do the math but I'm pretty sure that's quite a bit cheaper than what we're paying for our employee's health plans now.

So, when does this bill take effect?

Edit: My bad, 2013 according to the other thread.

[PETA]

Originally Posted by tragicallyunhip

I don't know why we've tied health insurance in with employment in the first place.

Because following WWII there were wage restrictions put in place by the government. Because employers could not compete on wage they offered benefits as additional inducements to accept employment.

Its not necessarily a natural fit and decoupling one from the other would, imo, be a useful policy goal.

Originally Posted by tragicallyunhip

Wouldn't it make more sense to offer affordable insurance that people could pay out of pocket with the help of government subsidies possibly (you know, like in the plan that just got passed)? That way we wouldn't be SOL every time we change jobs, get fired, get laid off, etc.

Sure. Do it through tax incentives, HSAs, open competition amongst providers etc. Use market principles rather than by creating new entitlement program. If the goal is averting disaster, the injury or disease that would bankrupt a family, then a gov't subsidized disaster plan w/very low premium abd high dedeductible would make sense... but that isn't what gov't option advocates are looking for. They want running nose visits covered.

Also, we are not SOL everytime we change jobs. COBRA provides a bridge for that in order to eliminate "pre-existing condition" risks. Expanding how long one could COBRA would make this even less of a problem.

Originally Posted by Nyteshade

If I remember correctly, it's an 8% fine for employers. I'd have to do the math but I'm pretty sure that's quite a bit cheaper than what we're paying for our employee's health plans now.

So, the fine actually would work out as an incentive for empl,oyers to drop many people from their coverage? So much for, "If you like your insurance you can keep it" huh?

Originally Posted by Nyteshade

Edit: My bad, 2013 according to the other thread.

Well! Good thing this crisis has been dealth with. People can all sleep easier tonight knowing 4 years from now their health care might be coverted by the government.