War & Options

[Hey Bubu]

We know that those who support the current state of affairs want to go to war, those who oppose it have some good
viable reasons for it, but I ask those of you who opposse the war, what alternatives would you give the president to follow.
Figure in the factors that have currently come to be.

[Adam D]

1. Continue disarmament. Hans Blix contended Friday that complete disarmament would only take months, and with the inspectors in Iraq, we are at the lowest possible threat from an Iraqi WMD attack, if you believe there is one at hand.

2. Wait for UN support. According to the UN Charter, no member nation has the right to unilaterally enforce a UN Resolution (specifically 1441 in this case), which is what Bush is really after. It begin with the UN, and it should be done that way.

3. UN push for exile. Let Saddam and Ba'ath party officials take some of his money and live in a Western European nation. If he chose not to, rather than killing off numbers of our population and the Iraqi population, a UN peacekeeping mission could be sent in to kick him out and force him into exile.

4. Push for a UN peacekeeping mission to protect a new referrendum on Hussein's presidency, and allow the people to vote him out of office (thus removing the threat of Hussein and allowing disarmament to continue) then have the UN protect a democratic election of a multitude of canidates.

5. Finance/Assist a Kurdish opposition that would take control of Iraq, and release south/southwestern Iraq to the Arab population and establish northern Iraq as a Kurdish nation, allowing Turkish and Iranian Kurds to move into the Kurdish nation and removing the political strife the Kurdish populations in Turkey and Iran have caused.

6. Push the UN to restructure Iraq's political system to allow for representative government, including uprooting the Ba'ath party political levithan and allowing equitable representation of the nation's various ethnic and religious groups.

Just a couple of observations on the diplomatic solutions offered.

Originally posted by Adam D

4. Push for a UN peacekeeping mission to protect a new referrendum on Hussein's presidency, and allow the people to vote him out of office (thus removing the threat of Hussein and allowing disarmament to continue) then have the UN protect a democratic election of a multitude of canidates.

This would be as large an undertaking as the war we are about to wage. Saddam's entire government structure is modeled on Stalin's, with the huge underlying Stalinist structure of secret police. These folks would have to be rooted out and either interned or killed. Short of that, Hussein would still maintain the infrastructure to undermine any democratic process.

5. Finance/Assist a Kurdish opposition that would take control of Iraq, and release south/southwestern Iraq to the Arab population and establish northern Iraq as a Kurdish nation, allowing Turkish and Iranian Kurds to move into the Kurdish nation and removing the political strife the Kurdish populations in Turkey and Iran have caused.

If this ever happened, the new Kurdish state would promptly be attacked by all sides, and be wiped out. The southern Iraqis and the Iranians would never tolerate a seperate Kurdish state. This would be like creating the problems in Israel on much larger scale.

6. Push the UN to restructure Iraq's political system to allow for representative government, including uprooting the Ba'ath party political levithan and allowing equitable representation of the nation's various ethnic and religious groups.

This is a good idea in principle, but as I mentioned above, it cannot work without COMPLETE removal of every aspect of Hussein's government system.

[Hey Bubu]

Originally posted by Adam D

3. UN push for exile. Let Saddam and Ba'ath party officials take some of his money and live in a Western European nation. If he chose not to, rather than killing off numbers of our population and the Iraqi population, a UN peacekeeping mission could be sent in to kick him out and force him into exile.

4. Push for a UN peacekeeping mission to protect a new referrendum on Hussein's presidency, and allow the people to vote him out of office (thus removing the threat of Hussein and allowing disarmament to continue) then have the UN protect a democratic election of a multitude of canidates.

5. Finance/Assist a Kurdish opposition that would take control of Iraq, and release south/southwestern Iraq to the Arab population and establish northern Iraq as a Kurdish nation, allowing Turkish and Iranian Kurds to move into the Kurdish nation and removing the political strife the Kurdish populations in Turkey and Iran have caused.

6. Push the UN to restructure Iraq's political system to allow for representative government, including uprooting the Ba'ath party political levithan and allowing equitable representation of the nation's various ethnic and religious groups.

I agree with the first two, now for the rest

3. No way Saddam is going to leave such a position of power, unless military forced to do so, in which case a war could evolve. Also what country would house him?

4.Not knowing the minds of the people in Iraq I couldn't say if this would work, but Saddam could easily fix the election. I don't think it would be too hard.

5.Would the Kurds really have the best intentions for Iraq and it's people? Who would take control? another general like Saddam? Granted it could work.

6. Would the UN also fund this? where would the majority of this money be coming from?
who would be in charge of electing the candidates to run? would fear of assasination from Saddams sympathizers prevent leaders from coming about? IE: Look at Mexico and Colombia for the best examples of this.

[Adam D]

Originally posted by Threecurl
This would be as large an undertaking as the war we are about to wage. Saddam's entire government structure is modeled on Stalin's, with the huge underlying Stalinist structure of secret police. These folks would have to be rooted out and either interned or killed. Short of that, Hussein would still maintain the infrastructure to undermine any democratic process.

Not necessarily. UN Peacekeepers would establish secured, private rooms to permit anonymous voting by citizens which would at very least minimalize the ability to subvert the referendum. With Hussein ousted from power, his secret infrastructure would collapse under fear of prosecution by the new government.

If this ever happened, the new Kurdish state would promptly be attacked by all sides, and be wiped out. The southern Iraqis and the Iranians would never tolerate a seperate Kurdish state. This would be like creating the problems in Israel on much larger scale.

I don't doubt that it would cause problems, but I do think it would be less horrific than the Israeli problem because you would have clear boundaries and governance for the Kurds as opposed to the Palestineans who fall victim to the Israeli government. I think Iran would be at worst dispassionate towards the situation beyond pushing the Iranian Kurds out into the new Kurdish state. Iraq, Iran's enemy, would be removed of the leader who fought with them, and would be a smaller nation, and a smaller threat.

This is a good idea in principle, but as I mentioned above, it cannot work without COMPLETE removal of every aspect of Hussein's government system.

I think this is a difficult task, but I don't think removing Hussein from power via amerikan military conquest is going to weed out his infrastructure any easier.

[Adam D]

Originally posted by TypeH
I agree with the first two, now for the rest

3. No way Saddam is going to leave such a position of power, unless military forced to do so, in which case a war could evolve. Also what country would house him?

He might take the opportunity to leave voluntarily, however, if he did not I still think the UN would be more likely on board with this idea, and a collective UN force would be available to root him out. France or Germany could house him, or England, who has housed many of the Taliban who were in exile pre-9/11.

4.Not knowing the minds of the people in Iraq I couldn't say if this would work, but Saddam could easily fix the election. I don't think it would be too hard.

Not if it was operated by a UN peacekeeping force, and not if it was a secret vote. See above.

5.Would the Kurds really have the best intentions for Iraq and it's people? Who would take control? another general like Saddam? Granted it could work.

I think the Kurds would be willing to deal with the UN to help take over Iraq in return for a Kurdish soverignty. After they retreat from Iraq, the UN could collectively develop representative government.

6. Would the UN also fund this? where would the majority of this money be coming from?
who would be in charge of electing the candidates to run? would fear of assasination from Saddams sympathizers prevent leaders from coming about? IE: Look at Mexico and Colombia for the best examples of this.

Yes, the same manner the UN always funds peacekeeping missions, and the UN could protect the canidates. See above, too.